Shotguns really, really need to be reworked. (Nerfed up close, more range.))

Before anyone gets upset with me trying to take their favorite toy away, there is one stat that is very important.

A Jackhammer, firing a 3 round burst, will do over 2016 damage. 2016 damage in a about a third of a second, to give it a DPS of approx 6000. SIX THOUSAND damage per second. Compare that to a standard good weapon, say the T9 Carv. That does 1787.5 DPS. The difference in DPS is crazy.

What about at range though? Well, at max range, the Jackhammer does 62.5% damage. So that means even at 50 metres, it can potentially do 1260 damage (Approx 3750 DPS. Which is why you can still get killed by a Jackhammer from long distance.)

What does that mean? If you ever come up against someone using the Jackhammer, within 10 metres, they'll be able to kill you before you can even get through their shield. (Unless of course, you are using another Jackhammer or a pump action shotgun.)

If they start shooting 0.3 of a second before you do, they will be able to kill you before you can even get a single shot off.

WHAT MAKES A SHOTGUN A SHOTGUN

I hate to resort to the IRL argument, but it's a good one. What makes a shotgun good In Real Life isn't the fact that it does "MASSIVE DAMAGE!" It's the fact that it shoots multiple projectiles, making it easier to hit targets.

Yes, shotguns can do a lot of damage to targets at close range, but only to UNARMORED targets. Shotguns are not high velocity weapons, so they can't penetrate body armor at range, which is why armed forces use high velocity rifle ammunition. And shotguns are NOT useless at long range. They can reliably engage targets out to 200 metres. The spread of a shotgun is NOT as much as in computer games. In fact, it's easier to hit targets at range because of the spread.

What really needs to be done, is to make shotguns in the game more like their real life equivalents. The spread of shotguns tightened up so that they can ALL be used at range. Pump action shotguns shouldn't be so much stronger than automatic, they should just get a further tightening of spread and a further reduction. And nerf the damage per pellet so that the DPS isn't so insane.

Yes, shotguns should be good at close quarters. But they shouldn't be so good that everything else is completely useless in comparison. For one thing, it doesn't reward skill. Body shotting someone with a pump action is NOT as hard as trying to land 5 consecutive headshots with a SMG. (Which gives you the quickest kill possible.) And a SMG is supposed to be a close range weapon too.


Some stats:
T9 Carv DPS = 1787.5
Sirius SX12 DPS = 1760
Auto Shotguns DPS = 3250
Pump action shotgun single shot = 1430 (Instant kill with 1 shot.)
Jackhammer short range burst = 2016 damage, approx 6000 burst DPS
Jackhammer maximum range burst = 1250 damage, approx 3750 DPS

Tightened spread is good idea.
Standard munition could be more effective against shields. Lets say overloading them by multiple impact in same time also bonus against HA shields. Some reduction in effect against flesh (when shields drop down). So it becomes nice support weapon on ranges up to 30m. Having still good lethality up close.

Slugs could have reduced small arms resistance at least to 30m. Nice weapons against maxes, ESF and harassers up close.

Maybe adding some crossbreed between slugs and standard something like flechette with lover pellets but tighter spread and better damage on ranges will be nice.

Despite how powerful they are I only ever see them used by 1 out of every 20 infantry or so. That's even during biolab farms. Compared the dozens of SMGs used all over the place.

Not counting NC MAXes of course.

all of those big numbers of theoretical dps don't mean anything.. in actual use the dps passed 20ms is atrocious because you cant hit every pellet no matter how good your aim is, the pellets make a circle that gets wider and wider the further they travel.. by the time you reach say 25 meters you will be lucky to land even 1/4th of the shells.

But but but! BF3 is like this! Anyway, just me posting in another thread that would be mitigated by a longer infantry TTK.

"Nerfed up close, more range."
That is SMG's role.

If shotguns in most games mimicked real life, it would just be another firearm similar to the ones we already have.

They don't follow real life so that shotguns can offer a different way to play the game.

Turn a corner and burst into red mist complements of a shotgun wielder? Too bad; so sad.

Do you feel sorry for the helpless shotty user when you melt him down at 30 meters? I doubt it.

DPS on a shotgun.

Such a meaningful metric.

Don't get shot with a jackhammer.

In some circles, frustration is called challenge. Understand the envelope of effectiveness for the weapons in question. Know how to keep the enemy out of their envelope, and endeavor to keep yourself within your envelope. Only this way, will you see the light. Blaming weapons is the way of darkness, and ultimately... humiliation. A never-ending search for mercy, and upon receiving that mercy, a sudden, violent, and repeating lesson that it was not the weapon that was winning. It was the opponent.

And shotguns are useless in comparison to other weapons past 10 meters. Seems like a good trade off to me.

Yes, I've been saying that for a long time now. Shotguns are too strong within 8m, and too weak past that. These extremes should not be so extreme.

You're completely forgetting the primary issue with the shotgun, being pellet spread. At max range you will not do the amount of damage or DPS you calculated, because you will be missing pellets.

Simple as that.


But that aside, I would love it if we had more range and less instagib on shotguns. Maybe have different classes of "Room clearing sawed off nonsense" shotguns, and "realistic fist-sized pattern at 30m choke" shotguns.

Sorry to say this but first decide that you want real life and then let all things be real life, or you want a game and then all things should be like a game.

Wow, you are covered in such a thick miasma of delusion that I'm not even sure that this post will reach you.

Possible post of the year candidate

Need to look at the bigger picture though. Although this would be great for shotguns, it would be detrimental to the other weapons and overall gameplay balance.

For instance, straight away these changes would make SMGs entirely redundant as we would have 2 weapon types competing in the same field (short/mid range).

Another issue is you have just removed the high DPS CQC weapon class entirely

Shotguns are used as, an 'avatar' if you will to stand in for the role of a proper CQC weapon class.
Shotguns arent there to be shotguns, they are there to be the games CQC options

If this change went through you would need to find a new use for subbies and a new stand in for the high DPS CQC weaponry.

Why should it? You said nothing. Quit begging for mercy in game, it leads to nothing. Why? Because your opponent can never be nerfed. You may receive tender mercies from the devs, but you will NEVER get an opponent that doesn't want to kill you- THIS is the root cause of your grief- NOT a weapon.

You really did not even read anything beyond the title, did you?

Wholeheartedly agree with OP, shotguns are grossly misunderstood in gaming and it's really annoying to try and use one and it doesn't even try to work like a real one.

No for real though what are you like 15?

No. Why? Are you looking for some action?

Seriously...you attack my character, and not my point. Therefore, you must agree with my point. If you agree with my point, why do you attack my character? Could it be that insult is the last refuge of an exhausted intellect?