Do not let this dalton ammo cap nerf happen

Really all this means is you've got to visit the ammo pad more often. And yes, you're probably going to have to be smart about which pad you land on.

You're the second fastest vehicle in the game right behind an ESF. You can afford to make the trip.

As far as "operating range" : Oh, you might actually have to support your team instead of crashing a fight between the other two factions on the opposite side of the map? The horror.

It still friendly, where is it harder??

Every new infantry player have perfect accuracy? No, they train, they get better.

Do tank pilots are instantaneously good when getting in a tank? Hell no lol, they practice and get better.

Why would it be different with a lib? Gunners will practice and get better. Nothing surprising here.

And please, stop asking for the dalton to AA. it's not it's damned primary function. It was and always was supposed to hunt and destroy Ground Armor. With the exceptionally lucky shot on an aircraft. A ground-hunter aircraft isn't supposed to be overly efficient against it's HARD counter, the ESF.
So stop asking for it, it's out of the designed/intended and fair picture of the whole game.

Btw, we are always calculating whatever the class or vehicle we play, we need to if we want to aim a little good whatsoever, libs are not a special cookie here.

I don't only compare with spawncamp libs, as they do exists. Just with the usual libbin' we can see and do all day long.

Spammability is always a problem as carelessness shows an imbalanced state. So yeah, they are both a problem each in itself.

It is beyond simply returning often to a landing pad to rearm, ESF already make frequent ammo stops so that is nothing new to pilots. What we are worried about is limiting our ammo supply to such a degree that there is no ability for libs to make attack runs and be able to return to rearm safely. Most gunners will miss a good portion of shots as the dalton is not an easy weapon to master, follow up on its blast radius nerf more ammo will be need to get solid kills. I understand you may not have much experience with this but Libs need a reduced dwell time on targets but not to the degree this nerf will create.

Yes

It's a 3 hex trip I'll have to make too many times for the amount of certs I put into ammo capacity. I'm more ok with 55-60 rounds, just not 40.

For sure Dalton is not supposed to to AA work, but it does and it is GOOD.
Skilled gunner, with a certed weapon in a certed lib with a skilled pilot and communication makes it possible.
Liberators can shoot down ESFs, and it is FUN.

I always have to bring the same argument for this one... ESF should be jets and should not be able to hoverdogfight...
Well, same thing: Not intended reverse maneuver etc. which makes them more fun and more skilled to use - Does it change? No! Should it change? NO!

Tanks also shoot down Aircrafts without it being its intended role, should it change? No!
Galaxys can roadkill lightnings.. Should it change? No!
All these things and I could name 100 other things are Planetside. And they are fun.
Make the Lib not being effecitve witht he bellygun against aircrafts will make the dedicated lib crews quit the game, because all this game is getting to (and some ppl really want it...) is boring REALLY boring shooting with a walker do defend itself, Lock-On Launcher from the Ground killing more aircrafts than aircrafts do, FLAK killing every aircraft in viewdistance and Coyotes and other noob and no fun weapons killing everything.. Killing also the game.

Shooting with the walker is right now more effective than shooting with a dalton against air - Fine, but no reason to nerf it even more, because the Walker is stupid boring spray & pray. And it DOES kill aircrafts.. Not believing me? Next time you are on I can pull a walker lib and you try to kill it when a gunner shoots at you (At least a competent gunner who can aim, not like 70% of the walker users right now making the walker looking bad and underperforming).

And are you arguing that you do not have to aim with the lib? It is the weapon platform itself which needs MUCH practice and MANY cert investments and much luck etc. to use.

https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/index.php?threads/tank-liberator-changes-update.190061/
From Kevmo in the "tank and liberator thread" (he updated it)

"We’re holding off on other changes until Phase 2. Phase 2 will likely include:

• Tank Buster and other nose gun adjustments
• Bulldog and other tail gun adjustments
• Further tuning of changes from phase 1"

from what i've heard air bulldog might be getting some nerfs. Don't quote me on it.

Because hitting with dalton rounds is much harder than hitting with tank shells. With 40 rounds, you might hit with 20 of them, but with 50 tank rounds, it wouldn't be hard to hit at least 40. Yes, the dalton does more damage, but MBTs also have TWO weapons that can unload on a target at one time.

No other vehicle in the game will have nearly as much of a problem with max ammo capacity than the dalton if this happens.

If you can name one reason why Dalton should have more ammo then MBT main cannon I would agree with you, otherwise you are just biased.

Gals would help with this problem, maybe, if I don't get rammed. Do you not understand how many often I will have to resupply with 40 dalton rounds? Any tank with max ammo capacity can stay in battle for a good long time.

Tankers DO try and shoot aircraft, ALL THE TIME. I know because 1. Whenever I'm in a magrider I like to try and shoot aircraft and 2. When I'm flying I get shot at by tanks more often than not.

"more often" is an understatement. Going back for ammo every 5 minutes would actually be extremely accurate. I should not have this problem with a 2300+ cert investment.

Or run with more than one Lib and co-ordinate the fire.

And what makes the dalton so much harder to land hits with?
No really, I'd like to know your reasoning. The thing has the same velocity as the prowler (which is the middle ground velocity for tanks), and you have the advantage of elevation.

So how is the Dalton harder?

It's harder to use and hit targets as you are in a vehicle you don't control moving in 3 dimensional space while trying to hit a target that is actively trying not to be hit by you with most encounters happening at a distance that the travel time is over 1 second. Accuracy on the Dalton with 9 meters of splash damage is around 50 percent even for the best of gunners. Tank drivers get to control when they move, when they stop, and when they shoot setting themselves up for a shot. Dalton is reliant on communication between 2 people to set up a shot on a target for one person that they other person can't even see while moving up, down, and forward at speeds up to 3 times that of a tank. How's that?

I think the Dalton and all belly guns could use an ammo reduction but to this extent is ridiculous.

Because 1. you're always much much further away from tanks in a lib then if you were in a tank. 2. You're always moving and 3. You have to compensate for some really awkward bullet drop.

Plus now that libs are getting armor reductions, libs will have to fly even higher making shots even harder.

I think my post above this one outlines quite a few reasons why I believe its harder to hit with a dalton then any of the tank cannons. For simplicity's sake I reposted it below.

It's harder to use and hit targets as you are in a vehicle you don't control moving in 3 dimensional space while trying to hit a target that is actively trying not to be hit by you with most encounters happening at a distance that the travel time is over 1 second. Accuracy on the Dalton with 9 meters of splash damage is around 50 percent even for the best of gunners. Tank drivers get to control when they move, when they stop, and when they shoot setting themselves up for a shot. Dalton is reliant on communication between 2 people to set up a shot on a target for one person that they other person can't even see while moving up, down, and forward at speeds up to 3 times that of a tank.

Because it's the liberators main gun and MBTs have 2 guns that can fire on a target simultaneously. Also, the post by Forlorn Hope above explains well why hitting with a dalton is harder than hitting with a MBT weapons.

I disagree with you, Liberator also have second gun on the tall and tankbuster on front, this is obvious and it is kinda stupid to argue about it. isaidhi3 if you want to have proper argumented discussion at least check how many gun seats the Liberator have if you haven't seen one.


Folron Hope-Dalton shots are indeed harder to hit then the tank ones, however the air to ground gunner have higher chance of engaging and disengaging faster then MBT, also infantry cannot surprise and instant-kill air targets( C4 and Tank mines) so this pretty much equals it.
Your argument about the control and sync between driver and gunner is more or less irrelevant because it counts for all MBT Secondary Gunner/Driver relations as well. If we compare MBT Halberd and Dalton ammo reserve we would see that ammo 4 gives:
Dalton +32
Halberd+12
Halberd have also have several less rounds in standard magazine. How this is fair?


Don't get me wrong here I love to gun on Liberator and MBT equally.
Realistically seen there are no real reason why MBT gun should have twice less ammo then Liberator gun.
Logistically also it makes less sense since air can resupply in 30 sec while armour must drive at least 3-4 times longer in order to get to ammo tower.

My personal good MBT runs ( around 30-40 min single-live 40-50 non-boosted Certs gain) for me requires 2-3 times to drive back to get enough ammo, equal run with Liberator-np instead of land to repair behind the hill, fly 20 sec more and repair on the ammo pad.

Also Ammo sundies are rare/non-existent because SOE bugged them- if the sundie resupply 3 tanks it got XP locked so people just does not pull them.

I never ever went out of ammo in Liberator and I constantly do in MBT, go figure.
It is just broken and you are just used with it even if you look a bit out of your boxes you would notice that is broken.
You just need to start to play the combined arms game and use other ground vehicles and compare their effectiveness with air.....

I am all for the nerf on ammo. I think they should have to go back for ammo more often.

There is no part about this post that I didn't like.

Welcome to being in line with other vehicles, especially tanks. Guess what? Our max ammo capacity is 2441 certs for a total of 50 rounds.

Oh, and this made my day: "it will seriously impede one's ability to make certs."

Oh god no, the lib farmers will actually need to do a little work.

What you're complaining about is something we on the ground have been dealing with the entire time. Now you'll need to actually grow a pair.

How sad.

It looks like we disagree on a fundamental level about most of this stuff so I won't argue about any of it but one thing. There is no Higbying way that the relationship between a Tank primary and secondary gunner translates directly to the Liberator. 95 percent of the time the pilot can't see what the gunner is shooting, They have to rely on the mini map and verbal communication to set the gunner up for a shot. If a tank secondary is shooting something the primary can see it, except in the 1 percent instance were the secondary is a Walker or Ranger. This is a huge fundamental difference between the platforms and trivializing it by comparing it to the Tank Primary and Secondary gunner relationship is horsenanites.