Vanguard Shield Changes + Implications

It isn't the end of the world.

What in my OP is wrong? I think I'm being pretty objective here.

I am, however, getting annoyed at arguments like "NC tankers are bad because of the shield". Like, seriously? The Prowler is used by almost every player as "pick a spot, anchor, farm". I'm not saying Prowler drivers are bad because of Anchor or because their tank is good at AI. But if you're going to make that argument then basically everyone is bad.

Which is actually true. Almost everyone who tries to use a tank has no idea what is going on.

I like that the shield now drops in one volley from the rear. It means that there's one scenario in which we can break it, if the van ***** up. Shooting the front and side of the vanguard is still not worth it if it's firing back though.

That aside, the EHP nerf is a bit harsh when you consider infantry based AV instead of tanks. It kinda lowers the overall utility quite a bit. As for the not being able to retreat .... i think this basically qualifies the vanguard for a buff of its reverse speed to 30 kph.

Never said it was, not all NC tankers are bad.. that is a very generalized statement. Purely from observation and experience however I can say that it is fairly easy to flank both the average prowlers and vanguards and I put both down to their abilities. The average new prowler driver likes to lockdown and farm infantry, they grow comfortable with this playstyle and never force themselves out of this role in order to improve themselves. The average newbie vanguard driver will either charge into a massive group suicidally because shield, not going to say anything about the tactical viability of this one, or not frequently check their surroundings because if they are flanked they are not punished for it.

I would much rather the tactics of tank v tank be more in-depth and have more skilled drivers to face because the best fun you can have in a tank is when you are up against another skilled crew. Sure flanking and then popping tank after tank while they all sit there oblivious to their friends dying besides them one by one is rewarding but it is just farming larger more lucrative targets with a little more work in getting to your position.

Anyway most posts you make seem to come from well-reasoned thought and I never called you out specifically in my post. You are discussing the implications of the change and there is nothing wrong with that at all, it is other people who have been crying both before your post and in this one that I was talking to. Just let it play out, you guys still have it better when it comes to tank v air and I think that is most tankers main concern at the moment.

Most people talking about the Vanguard shield probably never drove that thing very much.

Ok, with the shield, you win in one versus one scenario.

But in such a scenario, you did something wrong from the beginning, either you win or you lose, that means you went alone with your Vanguard what is a tactical mistake by nature.

So, the shield must not be seen as an "attack" feature (except for the bad tankers playing lone wolf style) but a "defensive" one, some kind of "panic button" to retreat safely for a few seconds, what was, is and will always be needed for the Vanguard, due to its not very mobile nature.

So, this change to the shield is simply a big, an huge nerf to the Vanguard, without improving any other of its abilities.

This bit here always gets me. How often, really, are you duking it out 1v1 with a tank? Like really?

Only time I can think of is when you need to bugger off to an armor station to pull a tank and you end up meeting an enemy tank on the road/offroad that's heading somewhere else. Every other time there's HAs, LAs, aircraft and other armor to worry about. Why not balance tanks around the massed combat scenarios that they typically find themselves in instead of which tank would kick the other's *** in a 1v1 slug match?

Every.single.time. Well, not really ... but happens way more for me than actually not having a 1v1. It's kind of the nature of solo (2/2) tanking. You flank and then you pick your targets. It's challenging and it's fun.

See, I never got into that when I used to run Vanguard, even less so now that I run Lightnings. I always stick with the armor column, if only for protection and to help direct fire.

And wouldn't flanking like that be more effective in Lightnings with AP than big clunky MBTs? Fast offroading wolfpack tactics and such.

1 mag AP and 1 Halberd pops the shield from behind

No, taking down targets quickly is what makes flanking effective, and for that you need the firepower of a 2/2 AV MBT (and max stealth). Lightnings can probably work too, but it'd be a lot more work. Generally, this is a playstyle that people seem to gravitate toward more as they get more experienced.

I'm looking mostly at the speed and maneuverability associated with getting in on a flank then bugging out when things inevitably go south. The work with the Lightnings would mostly come from making sure the "pack" knows how to stealth and coordinating who attacks what and when. Four AP Lightnings that know what they're doing and are in constant communication would, I feel, wreak more havoc than two 2/2 MBTs (Not, as might be interpreted, more damage). Four separate targets with speed and agility to rival all but a Prowler, Flash and Harasser, able to break off, scamper, hide and organize ambushes.

This is, of course, assuming the Lightnings involved are as good as the 2/2 AV MBT crew, but for Lightnings.

I really don't see a reason C4 should do so much damage. Literally the only thing you have to do is wait 5/6/7/8 (or now only 6) seconds and detonate it.

Wow, they just hammered the **** out of the VG, enforcer nerfed into the ground, shield 2 seconds shorter AND 33% less health, lol... When SOE ***** things up they **** it up good.

I wouldn't be surprised if an AP prowler in lockdown will now blow through the front of the shield and destroy the tank now.

Oh well i'm done, -1 for PS2.

I take it the Lightning (AP) will require two hits to the rear to knock the shield down? Meh, I need to find an AP lightning buddy in Connery TR...

Shame you're not NC, I'd roll with you D=

Be prepared for the new king of CQC, an AP prowler with a vulcan and fire suppression, instead of losing to VGs glowing blue magriders will be whining about their new prowler overlords thats are even faster then VGs, and they won't see them coming because they'll all be using Stealth, lol.

Yes he will. He was supposed to do that anyway, you know, since hes kinda making himself a stationary target for his DPS boost.
A Prowler in anchormode (lockdown is the, imo still ********, MAX ability) deals 944 damage per salvo, assuming both shots hit and the numbers in the wiki are still accurate. A totally maximum certified Prowler can dish out that damage in 2 seconds - or three seconds if you want to count in the reload of the second salvo.
Kill with the first shot of the 7th salvo, TTK 9 seconds.
The Vanguard needs 5 shots, TTK 14 seconds.
Of course thats assuming everything hits and the Vanguard runs into a already deployed Prowler. (And that my math is right)

And now some variations!
The Prowler starts the fight undeployed! This raises the TTK by a minimum of 2 seconds. Its a minimum because sometimes you have to STAND STILL for several seconds before you even CAN deploy. Actually that happens most of the time ....
The Vanguard runs reinforced armor, and shows this side to the Prowler. Most that I meet use that.
Kill on the second shot of the 8th salvo, TTK 11 seconds.

Soo.... according to those numbers if you slug it out the Prowler will win, at least if we only consider the main gun. Secondarys don't get boosted by the anchor, and would sway the numbers a bit in odds of the Vanguard - especially if the Prowler doesn't have one.
Good thing that the Prowler is locked in place and can't follow you (at least not while enjoying that advantage) while the Vanguard is mobile.
Of course, if it is a CQC slugfest, the Vanguard will win - he will simply drive around the Prowler and shoot his ***, almost doubling his DPS, while showing the prowler his, propably reinforced, side armor.

Hmmm the numbers seem fine, the shield is still versatile as ever, its still instant, it still has no drawback. It just lost enough power that the guy with the drawback has now a considerable advantage.

By the way - if someone has more accurate, more recent numbers on armor values and resistance types, please tell me where to find them. I like to calculate the effectiveness of my weapons, and having inaccurate numbers kinda ***** that up.

PS: I couldn't find the value that reload certs reduce the Titans reload speed, so I just assumed its the same like the Prowler weapon, 0.1s. If I was wrong about that the Vanguards TTK for the prowler will shrink accordingly of course... If it is 0.2s the TTK would be 12 seconds

Looking at each Empire's ES MBT ability in terms of versatility:

Terran Republic
Lockdown: Trades all mobility for extreme amounts of firepower and shell velocity. Situational awareness is required to avoid spontaneous combustion faries, but affords the tanker overwhelming quantities of shells being fired downrange. Major advantage for a disadvantage that can be mitigated by anything from proxy radar, to having a dedicated kobalt gunner. Flanking armor can blast you quickly due to undeploy times, but still teamwork friendly.

Vanu Sovereignty
Magburn: One second of forward acceleration on a slow cooldown. No tradeoff in terms of stock vs magburn equipped, but sacrifices utility for the ability to climb hills slightly faster, or the ability to give enemy armor free critical hits while attempting to reposition for an escape burn - requires rapid and frequent forethought and adaptability to use effectively in combat, and can still be countered by a smart enemy (Positioning, etc) Useful mostly for spam bursting up hills, and trying to reach a base in the slowest tank in the game. Also nice as an 'oh-crap' vs impending C4.

New Conglomerate:
Free HP equaling half the total health of your tank for six seconds, repeatable (at minimum) once per minute. ... Useful in ALL situations where you'll be taking damage. Ignore lockons, survive a C4 farie, ignore a full firing cycle from an AP cannon + a halbred to rear armor.
... ... How is this not still amazing? Granted, the vanguard itself shouldn't rely on it's shield as much as it does. (More torque for greater acceleration in exchange for having a lower top speed... setting it's stock max speed equal to a stock magrider seems appropriate)

In terms of versatility... the TR gets more damage for less mobility, the VS gets a slight speed boost in exchange for instantly exploding when attempting to use it for escape (Yes, this is biased, it's really not that bad... the current patch's buff is a step in the right direction) and the NC get to... take less damage whenever they please, within cooldown limitations? I'll take shield over the other two any day.

A reload upgraded prowler without lockdown and a vulcan will destroy a VG with his shield to the front in about 9 seconds now at 50m, lol, yes you heard that right. Welcome your new Prowler CQC overlords. With fire suppression the VG TTK against the front of a prowler could go into 10+ second territory if it can survive the 3rd AP with enforcer, or if it can survive the 4th halberd round, don't have anyone on atm to test it, but you get the point, a lockdown prowler would kill even faster, leaving almost no time to even drive behind them.

And meanwhile, Prowlers keeps their double kill AP against infantry and Magrider their keepmoving hit and run tank SPAM sarron close. Prowlers and Magriders are still two times more versatile with a AP loadout than the vanguard who still has a little edge on AV but gives all this for being ****** up against infantry.
SOE, WAKE UP! Nerf the shield (done) and BUFF the Vanguard or say bye bye to asymetric balance!

Yea the shield is a crutch it's used to keep the ****** tank capable at fighting I remember hearing an idea that the vanguard would get a 15 sec invulnerable shield that would heal them, but has a long cool down, can't shoot with it, and movement sped would be slowed by some were around 90%-95%. Possibly a longer shield to. this would make the vanguard very easy to flank then kill after the shield is up while still being effective