Vote against Vanguard nerf

This is the exact reason it needs to go. Simple as that. This isn't balance, this isn't even close.

You are also assuming that we have gunners.
Prowlers gunner rate is 9%. meaninf 81% of the time we have no gunner. So when 81% of us drive up behind a Vannie and shoot it up the tailpipe it will pop shield, turn and kill us. Plus you are also assuming the Vanguard doesnt have a gunner as well. A AP Vanguard, with Enforcer/Halberd gunner will make mince meat out of any tank that comes up behind it.

Faster reloads would help, would also make it a better AA weapon.

The I-Win shield should have been removed completely, not just nerfed.

Curious about the rates of secondary gun usage. Based on the stats, here are the following usage times:

Magrider
All primary cannons- 20,039 days
All secondary weapons- 5,138 days
Percentage of time that there is a seconday gunner- 25.6%

Prowler
All primary cannons- 25,605 days
All secondary weapons- 2,257 days
Percentage of time that there is a secondary gunner- 8.8%

Vanguard
All primary cannons- 17,202 days
All secondary weapons- 3,255 days
Percentage of time that there is a secondary gunner- 18.9%

As for TTKs, based on this site (which might be out of date):
Prowler AP cannon with Halbred and first rank of Lockdown
versus
Vanguard AP cannon with Enforcer and first rank of Shield

Prowler TTK against Vanguard front: 13.3s
Prowler TTK against Vanguard rear: 6.5s
Vanguard TTK against Prowler front: 8s
Vanguard TTK against Prowler read: 4s

So if an AP Prowler with a Halbred sneaks up on the Vanguard, goes into Lockdown, and shoots at the rear of the Vanguard, the Vanguard will be dead in 6.5s even if it raises its shields. Meanwhile if the AP Vanguard with an Enforcer is shooting at the front of the Prowler, it would take 8s to kill the Prowler.

That is to say that your scenario and predicted outcome is incorrect. A Prowler who sneaks up on a Vanguard still has the advantage, even if the Vanguard pops its shield.

Now let's take each optimally kitted out tank:
Prowler AP cannon (max Anchor, max front armor, and max reload speed) with Halbred (max reload speed)
versus
Vanguard AP cannon (max Shields, max front armor, and max reload speed) with Enforcer (max reload speed)

Prowler TTK against Vanguard front: 13.02s
Prowler TTK against Vanguard rear: 4.83s
Vanguard TTK against Prowler front: 8.28s
Vanguard TTK against Prowler rear: 3.6s

Even with top-of-the-line tanks, a Prowler that catches a Vanguard in the rear can still tear it to shreds. Even faster than just the 1st level certed tanks, because higher levels of the Vanguard shields don't help in 1-v-1 engagements.

Thanks for the stats and the only problem with that scenario is I have to ANCHOR to win. Thats even worse than I thought.
To Anchor mode near an enemy Vannie is a terrible idea, and even when I do win from this., they could easily get out before they die and c4, rocket, etc me because I CANT MOVE.

Thankyou for telling me that it is theoretically impossible to beat a Vannie with a gunner from behind without locking down.
-_- That is just ridiculous.

i may have misunderstood this, but all i read was "when i try and solo a 2/2 AP vanguard i lose" which seems to make sense

what frustrates me the most about people complaining about the shield, is they always ignore the other tanks abilities, every time some one calculates the ttk with the shield, they forget that the prowler should also be anchored, or using fire suppression, they forget that the magrider can magburn around cover and kite for 8 seconds

and the best part? the shield is the only thing that props the vanguard up, its the thing every vanguard uses to get to the lofty heights of ... being the worst performing MBT in the majority of statistics INCLUDING AV KPH... makes sense lets nerf it.

great idea, you should be able to beat it without even trying, i mean who could expect you to have the skill to use your own ability? that would be too hard,

the only reason people dont complain that anchor is OP (it clearly is, the huge dps increase) is because so many idiots use it in the wrong place, or dont use it at all.

Uhhh... so you wanted to compare two tanks where one tank uses its special ability that gives it an edge in combat and the other tank to not use its special ability that gives it an edge in combat?

I mean why don't we just limit the Prowler to only firing one of its cannons at a time then if we're just going to purposefully tip the scales?

But if that's the way you want to play it, without Anchor an AP Prowler can still do respectably against the rear of a Vanguard.

Prowler AP cannon (max reload speed) with Vulcan (max magazine size, max reload speed), plus max front armor
versus
Vanguard AP cannon (max reload speed) with Enforcer (max reload speed), plus max front armor

Prowler TTK against Vanguard rear: 6.03s
Vanguard TTK against Prowler front: 8.28s

There you go. Prowler still wins. Happy now?

Thats the exact problem, they will never buff it whilst it has this ridiculous shield.
The shield is saving the tank, its the thing holding it back.

The other thing is, yes, Anchor mode also needs to be taken into consideration, the issue is you dont use it when you 1v1 a Vanguard which is why id dont mention it.

And yes I am asking why I cant solo a 2/2 Vanguard but in the REAR armor, like I can do when fighting any other tank.
When someone can sneak up behind someone and dump AP up their tailpipe, dont you think they should win?

Any tank that gets AP dumped in the tailpipe should lose. That is what I am saying.

Rear armor exists for a reason, same as why we cant get extra rear armor in our defense slot, because they WANT us to die when we get shot in the rear.
Tell me then why I should lose then if I drive up behind a Vannie and mag dump into rear armor? What am I doing wrong?

Did you take into account their shield?
There is no reason not to use the shield whilst there is a VERY real reason you dont Anchor in this situation.
Plus if i anchor that would also give enough time for Vannie to drive up next to me and shoot my side armor or even rear armor.

On paper I could win. On the battlefield? Deploying is a death sentence.
On paper the Canister is good as well, that doesnt mean jack in game though.

You obviously havent tanked much as a Prowler if you think Anchoring is a viable tactic for a 1v1 with a Vanguard.

no, people with no perspective , are holding it back. the shield is its ability and is clearly not so "IWIN" when the kph stats that were posted earlier in this thread.

if you arent going to use an ability when the other person does, that is your fault you lost. you need to tailor your playstyle around the strengths of your machine, if you want to play like a vanguard, i suggest playing NC

hint, you cannot 1v2 a tank in cqc that is designed for cqc when it uses its cqc ability, and you dont enhance your own DPS.
ambushing and flanking is all about burst damage, get a halberd, and a gunner, everyone else has to.

this reduction in shield timer changes nothing, it doesnt adress the problem with the shield being way OP. its still IWIN. Make it so the tank cant shoot while shielded or make it move slower. anything.

VS got horrible speedburst that lasts 0.1 sec

TR got crappy lockdown.

Sigh.

Yes, the target Vanguard is shielded. It effectively has 7,000 HP. So even against a shielded Vanguard, and without using Anchor, an AP Prowler can still rip it to shreds through smart maneuvering.

Anything else?

incorrect, any tank that keeps the advantage should win.

for starters you have driven UP behind the vanguard. you have closed the distance making your own ability less effective, you have no gunner, which has halved your dps, you are not using your special ability which has severely cut your dps.

In reality, few non-Vanguards run AP primary and secondary, so Vanguards already have an edge in the occasional tank vs tank situation.

Shield is not CQC, Vanguard is not CQC. Shield still works the same at range.

My tank ability actually has a drawback, thats the problem with using it in a 1v1
Yours doesnt, its just a free boost.
If my tank ability was an instantaneous timed fire rate boost that still gave me full mobility then I would understand your point

The lesson here guys is dont bother trying to employ strategy with a Vanguard. Just shoot it from a distance until it dies.

Gameplay runs so deep.

Vanguard shield as it is, is a tactical dead end. There is no counter for it (other than the combined fire of 3 or more tanks).
If it was directional but stronger, that would be great, because then I could still actually fight you when you pop it, specially if I came up behind you.

I want to fight and win through skill and strategy, not waiting around the corner, humming to myself waiting for the shield to drop.

Coming up behind a tank IS my advantage.
There is a reason why you cant upgrade rear armor. Current Vanguard shield counters this golden rule of tanking. Rear armor is supposed to be weak

Yeah but THAT is the non-Vanguards fault for not pulling AP.

But when I go full AP, when I come up behind a Vanguard, with its glorious golden booty shining at me and i mag dump into it, i should not lose.