Vote against Vanguard nerf

Which game is this?

But you see, the devs accidentally made something that can stand up against TR tech, and they simply cannot have that.
So it has got to be far less effective rather than a merely less effective than something that fires twice as many shells 40% faster that do only 60% as much damage because they reason no one who plays this game does math.

Where are these so-called "stats"? Statistically speaking, vanguards run 1/2 while magriders run 2/2. You left that part out.

Look who's talking.

What? your statistic says not much about which primary is better....cause it always depends on the fight, how many enemies are there and if you got a 2/2 or just a 1/2. The raw numbers clearly show that the primary of the vanguard is superior to that of the magrider....especially if you add 6 seconds shield. Not to metion that the vanguard is the best MBT vs. air...where the magrider is basicly useless.
Ypu need no compensation..actually the shield isn't nerfed enough..it should be down to 4 seconds.

Really? The niche of the magrider is being unpredictable? Mow that is exactly the niche I want for my tank. I don't want it to be strong...I want it to be UNPREDICTABLE.
Whatever....why don't you say it as it is: You got no idea where the magrider is beating the other tanks. Nobody knows...that's why people come up with stuff like "but they can climb hills!".

I am reading a lot of weird comments and speculations here.
Since everybody has his own opinion on the matter, I think we should be patient and wait for the minor adjustements which will occur soon about the abilities of the three MBTs.

I am already glad to know that the SOE guys have finally noticed the flaws of those abilities.
Furthermore, I am almost sure that they have already some ideas for those small adjustements but I hope those ones will be not too much downgrades of the current abilities or will be not degrade to uselessness.

By the way, why calling a vote against a nerf which is not done yet and for which you have no veracious idea of what it will be made in the details ... I think a change like 2 seconds less for the shield timer is barely noticable and I do not really call that a tremendous change for the Vanguard effectiveness.

Oh thats funny.
but they strafe!

I do always like the cheeky half-thought answers given about magriders regarding tank balance.

An AP Vanguard with an Enforcer or Halberd even without the Shield is still the biggest threat to Armor in the game. The Shield is just a "Oh $hit!" or "Iwin" button althoug many NC are using it wrong and die because of it. If the Shield were to be thoroughly change many NC Tankers would actually have to improve themselves instead of relying on the Shield completely.

What does the mag get to compensate saron nerf?
What does prowler get to compensate HE/HEAT nerf (Vulcan buff is not enough of a buff to change anything.)

ALL MBTS were nerfed in this upcoming patch.
The Shield nerf did not solve the problem, it just made the shield less effective
The Saron nerf was uncalled for
Enforcer nerf was stupid
Vulcan buff was pointless
and Prowler HE/HEAT nerf is even stupider.

Vangaurd is also NOT underpowered.
When I am in my vangaurd I feel like a god vs tanks. Thats something I don't feel in my mag or prowler.

yeah but the shield is also ridiculous. the only ability that wasn't ridiculous was the magburn.

wouldnt it be better to buff one ability rather then nerf 2?

8 seconds was a blink of an eye in any decent Tank Duel

It doesn't look like a Kobalt to me either. It's definitely something else. Something besides a Kobalt.

A 25% reduction isn't significant? Maybe I have a different perspective because I use the Vanguard so much, but I can think of plenty of situations where those last two seconds made all the difference. The difference between dying and living.

(Not specifically to the guy I quoted):
I hate these kinds of discussions because the majority of the people posting in them have absolutely no idea what they're talking about when it comes to MBTs, but everyone thinks they're an expert.

That's all I have to say about this.

And yet Prowlers and Magriders perform significantly better statistically.

Because of bad vanguard pilots who think the shield will save them if they rush 12 enemy tanks and who only drive 1/2. Are those the stats you're referring to?

So to clear the air about the various anti-vehicle capabilities of each tank. Here are the real world performance statistics:

VS average vehicle KPH
Halbred- 15
Saron- 12
Supernova AP- 13
Supernova HEAT- 7
Total average vehicle KPH: 47

Prowler average vehicle KPH
Halbred- 11
Vulcan- 11
P2-120 AP- 15
P2-120 HEAT- 7
Total average vehicle KPH: 44

NC average vehicle KPH
Halbred-12
Enforcer- 13
Titan-150 AP- 12
Titan-150 HEAT- 7
Total average vehicle KPH: 44

Now what can we conclude from this?

1) Many VS will claim that their tank is balanced around their secondary gunner, and not the main cannon. The stats show that this is false. The Magrider AP cannon kills more vehicles than the Vanguard AP cannon, and the Magrider HEAT cannon performs just as well as any other factions' HEAT cannon.

2) The Halbred on the VS Magrider significantly outperforms the Halbred on the Vanguard and Prowler. This is probably due to the maneuverability of the Magrider, allowing it to more easily attack and flank enemy vehicles. Or shoot and then scoot back into cover.

3) Overall the VS Magrider is the best at destroying enemy vehicles, as well as having the best vehicle KDR. It's interesting how it turns out that the Magrider was the best, and not the "seemingly invincible" Vanguard or the spam-firing Prowler. And that the VS are the ones who tend to stay out of the MBT debates.

4) Oddly enough according to the stats the Vulcan is performing the same as the Halbred for the TR, when it's more commonly thought that the Vulcan is underpowered. The explanation for this is related to how vehicle KPHs are calculated... they take the total number of vehicle kills and divide that by the amount of time that someone is sitting in that weapon. So if the weapon is mostly unoccupied, then that will increase the average vehicle KPH. Since most TR despise the Vulcan, they usually leave it empty unless it's in a situation where the Vulcan will shine, ie CQB. The same is probably true of the NC's AI Secondary, the Canister.

5) As expected the Prowler's AP cannon are the best anti-tank MBT cannon in the game. Who knew that fast-firing, high-DPS cannon would be the best at blowing up enemy vehicles? Well everyone except the TR it seems.

6) The Halbred on the Prowler is performing a bit worse than the Halbred on the Vanguard, and much worse than the Halbred on the Magrider. Compared to the Vanguard however this is more than made up by the power output of the Prowler AP cannons.

7) The Enforcer is the strongest ES AT secondary weapon, but does not outperform the Halbred on a VS Magrider. Even then, the Enforcer only beats the Saron by 1 vehicle KPH, so it's not very much. And when it's combined with the "optimal" AV loadout for the Vanguard, it cannot make up for the low killing potential of the Vanguard AP cannon.

8) The much decried Vanguard AP cannon is actually the worst performing AP cannon out of the three MBTs. Close enough to the Magrider so that it's not worth complaining about, but compared to the Prowler AP cannon... oh boy.

9) Let's take the "best" anti-tank loadouts of each tank:
Magrider with AP cannon and Halbred: average vehicle KPH of 28
Prowler with AP cannon and Halbred: average vehicle KPH of 26
Vanguard with AP cannon and Enforcer: average vehicle KPH of 25
So pretty much in an hour of gameplay, an average Magrider can take out 28 vehicles, an average Prowler can destroy 26 vehicles, and an average Vanguard can dismantle 25 vehicles.

So tell me again why the Vanguard is the one getting its AV secondary weapon and survivability nerfed?

"Dude, losing 2 seconds or 25% of that ability is fine".
FIFY.

Except for, you know, to keep shooting at the Shield until the 3000 HP it provides for 8 6 seconds is worn down.
Then you have 45 47 seconds to kill the Vanguard as per normal.

So according to you the game will only be "balanced' when NC never win anything, because in your mind the NC consists entirely of noobs?

How about no. I didn't join the NC to be the other two factions' free cert farm.

NC tankers also run 2/2 just as much as VS tankers, and more of those 2/2 tanks are AV because of how horrible the Vanguard's AI is. The only faction that consistently runs 1/2 more often than not is TR, and that's because their main gun has enough DPS on its own to get away with it.

Nope.

Yes that is a problem. If someone gets outflanked they've been outplayed. This lack of awareness -should- be punished.
However the shield makes it a non-issue for the VG and that -is- a problem. Even more so when it's the only thing one of the other tanks can be said to be good at as far as AV is concerned.

Depends on how you want to balance the game.
Should the utilities be flavour? Then you'd have to nerf at least the shield and potentially do something to the lockdown (it has too extreme of a benefit and too extreme of a downside).
Or do you make it so that the abilities are the most important variable? Then you'd have to buff 3 abilities, not just one (smoke, FS and Burner).
The two ways are different, and either is fine.
As long as it's applied across the board, something it isn't on the current live build.
If I'm honest, I don't think NC and TR would appreciate it if the Mag got an ability on the level of ridiculous as the shield.

The NC are -almost- (still behind) the mag on the use of AV gunners. The VS do in fact use more Saron HRBs than the NC use both the halberd and Enforcer. And there is a notable use of the halberd even for the VS.
The PPA is extra gunner time on top of this, taking the mag from a slight lead in gunner use to a major one.