Nerfing Tank AV Won't Help Infantry

In fact, the AV weapons requires more skill from the MBT crew in order to kill infantery players effectively.
While this is not their intended purpose, those weapons become deadly in good and experienced hands.
The splash damages are ridiculous, but a direct hit is very effective and rewarding. That is a fair balance.

Previously, the Saron was able to kill any infantery player in 1 direct hit.
It was the perfect anti campers (HA with lock on rockets - AV mana engineers, Snipers).

However, I agree to say that it was a tad too easy and very frustating for the infantery player who had not the time to react, so they made a good choice when they increased the kill to 2 direct hits.
In the contrary, to increase this required number to 3 direct hits make this weapon absolutly useless against infantery players at mid / long range.
If they really wish to balance this new change, they should have reduced a bit the recoil between shots.

From a weapon of precision, the Saron is becoming slowly a burster weapon and I feel sad for the ones who have not changed for the Halleberd yet.
Of course, the Halleberd will be probably the next source of complains and nerfs because some players will never stop to cry, until everything that one-shot them is not removed from the list of their threats.

Making this thread in the non-vehicle forum may be a bad idea since a huge number of the population have almost no understanding of what vehicle gameplay is actually like beyond the zerg.

The Saron just looks... right on the Magrider. Despite the ever-increasing list of reasons to get and use the Halberd, ive always stuck to the Saron because thats plainly the cannon that the Magrider was designed with before they pulled it off and sold it seperately.

Saron's still going to be far, far more effective against infantry than the Vulcan. Your ESAV hasn't been completely ruined, so don't complain.

Edit: I'm guessing the Halberd's one-hit KO potential against infantry is going to be removed from the game in the next few months.

The vulcan is a ******* piece of trash that nobody in their right mind would use. Almost all tank drivers in my outfit use everything but that weapon.

If they do that; **** me upgrading, it isn't worth my cash. I'll just play BF4 where skill is rewarded in most cases.

Tanks are becoming more and more ridiculous. More than 1 shot to kill with an AV weapon is plain dumb. Soon enough tanks in this game will run from infantry, not the other way around (it actually already is the case, on many occasions).

In a tank battle, when defending, you're already better off as an AV max than a tank. Heavies wreck tanks left and right. This is not balance. This madness.

This is just a Magrider nerf which is exactly what the worst tank in the game does not need. I can't believe they are doing this.

Stop nerfing the Margrider. It's full on AV loadout still can't compete with a Prowler or Vanguard's, and now it can't even kill infantry even semi-effectively with it.

Statistically, the Enforcer was a pretty constant amount of kills going from Low to High BR users. The Saron had just about the same amount, if not a little more to make up for the main gun not doing well in this regard(Hull locked gun with limited situational awareness). The only players who did noticeably well with using the Saron to kill infantry were at the very top of BR's.

So basically now the Enforcer and Halberd will be way better at killing infantry than the Saron in all levels of user experience.

The Vulcan is a joke compared to the Enforcer / Basilisk / Halberd / Saron. It should no be brought into comparison with those weapons as it's in it's on class of bad in anti-synergy with the tank it is used on. Although, with the buff it may be back to killing aircraft far better than the other options are.

From reading these replies you can tell who spends 99.9% of their time in vehicles. This upcoming nerf was inevitable, when the vulcan,enforcer,and saraon was released the first one to go was the vulcan. Everyone and their grandmother on the receiving end felt it was way too over powered. Why you would think 1 AV weapon would be nerfed and your faction's would some how go untouched is silly.

Saron should have no splash, its AV...
IF Saron keeps splash, I think they should add splash to Vulcan

Skyguard flak should explode near infantry..

Any good player can make the most out of what he has, the real question is why should SOE balance solely based on the performance of those people, and no they shouldn't cater to "casuals" either.

The point is they're trying to have AV weapons live up to their namesake but approaching situation wrongly. AV needs to have limited capabilities against infantry but nerfs won't be doing any good. Forumside has been pretty quiet about this particular part of the game and it probably means that it's fine and changes are uncalled for.

The thing I find funny about balancing AV weapons against infantry is that it makes no sense.

"This bullet is designed to pierce 50-100mm steal plate armor to completely decimate a vehicle. It's complete with a high bullet velocity. Buuuuuut physics like that don't work on soft targets like infantry. Skin is stronger than metal. And armor designed to absorb explosive blasts will withstand an AP round, a round designed to go through armor, with no problem"

The Saron is the only ES AI tank weapon I die to as an infantry frequently. If its blast radius dropped, I'd be fine with it as it's usually an indirect hit that kills me. The Enforcer is easy enough to dodge. And the vulcan... I doubt it has that many kills against infantry.

You do know that Halberd with max reload speed has better DPS then Enforcer, even more after the nerf. So what does this equalate with the Prowler then?

Also the TTK with Saron against infantry as it currently stands is alot quicker, easier and more forgiving then it is with the Enforcer.
After this patch it's going to be all factions using the Halberd anyway so I guess we all get "Balance".

But VS do get the only Viable ES AI vehicle mounted weapon in that regard.

Not that I disagree with your post in any sense but are you talking about stock Enforcer?

They are making the splash radius 2x bigger. Which is something NOBODY wants, both tank drivers and infantry.

Reload speed for the Enforcer is clip base rather then shot based.
Where as the Halberd is shot based.

So when you hear TR players moan that their ES AT secondary sucks, they are infact using an upgrade over the NC in terms of DPS. (If some of them can be bothered to upgrade the reload speed that is).

Skilled players > Halberd
Less aim friendly players > Enforcer (as it's more forgiving if you miss)

Lets see Damage Before Mitigation no reload speed cert line:

Pre-patch
Halberd 1000 every 3.25 seconds
Enforcer 1500 every 3 seconds

Post patch
Halberd 1000 every 3.25
Enforcer 1500 every 3

Damage per 10 seconds for pre patch
Halberd 4000 (Is 0.25 seconds into 5th reload)
Enforcer 5000 (1 second into first reload)

Damage per 8 seconds for post patch
Halberd 3000 (is 1.5 seconds into 4rd reload)
Enforcer 4000 (1 second into first reload)

Damage per 20 seconds pre patch
Halberd 7000 (Is 0.5 seconds into 8th reload)
Enforcer 9000 (2 Shots left in magazine, after second Reload)

Damage per 20 seconds post patch
Halberd 7000 (Is 0.5 seconds into 8th reload)
Enforcer 8000 (Is 1.5 seconds into 2nd Reload)

As for the Saron quicker did you miss the line about pausing between shots to bring the COF down to hit infantry which lowers the ROF to 60 rpm which is the same as the Enforcer.

*Edit add fixed the math error on as 0 second marks start of engagement *

I completely agree with the OP. I don't know much about NC as I mainly play VS and am sorta new. However, the nerf to the Saron is completely unmerited.

To those saying that we should switch to AI and just have infantry deal with tanks. I can understand this and see this happening.

To those saying that it's wrong that we are using an AV weapon against infantry, that we aren't using the "correct" weapon and should be penalized. I don't understand this.

Let's say I pull a Saron Mag and destroy 5 enemy tanks in the span of 5-10 minutes as well as some straggling infrantry. Let's say the battle is still going on, but the enemy vehicles are either still coming from another base, on the opposite side of the current base, or some other reason. Should I be forced to abandon my tank because I have fulfilled it's duties, but am no longer able to kill softer infantry targets?

tl;dr Should a Saron Mag be abandoned because they have finished destroying enemy vehicles and can't kill infantry with nerfed weapons?

Little note, On the damage per 20 seconds post patch its 1.75 seconds not 1.5 second noticed it after my edit but can't edit the post again. Now this does lower DPS it doesn't reduce the TTK. As full AP Vanguard vs Magrider/Prowler side/top is a 5 second TTK, and 6 second TTK from the front. Two main gun shots and 5 enforcer shots for side, 6 enforcer shots for the front.

From what I can tell, this is actually somewhat incorrect. But I might be wrong too.

https://docs.google.com/a/klyptotec...3A71RTVddEZudnV4c1VnQVVreFNqNkZzbFhxQXc#gid=0

The nerf just seems to be for when the Vanguard is going 1 v 2