Why are MAX Units in this Game?

I'm just curious. I've been playing Medic and Engineer for a few months now and getting my *** handed to me over and over. It's pretty fun actually, if sometimes frustrating.

What isn't fun are MAX units; from what I can see, they serve no purpose that couldn't be taken up by the other classes and they're bloody annoying. Their 'take a full magazine of ammunition and don't die' ability is taken up by the heavy assault with its shield, their anti-air infantry weapon (Burster) could easily be given to the light assault or heavy assault and... well... nothing else really. Formation centerpiece I suppose?

They're a constant source of grief in the game, with their ridiculous Zealot Overdrive and Lockdown powers, dual-wield shotguns and damage resists giving them an insurmountable advantage in basically every fight, even against multiple players. The damage they sustain can be repaired in five seconds with two trailing engineers, allowing it to soak up the combined arms of a dozen people, to the point where it is sometimes better than a tank. This gets infinitely worse during MAX crashes.

Beyond that, it sort of goes against the nature of the game in that individual players (or a small number of players) can beat a larger number of players using brute force, rather than working as a part of a larger unit. That's just my opinion though, I suppose you could see it differently.

I understand I'm not exactly an authority on the issue (hell, my SPM and K/D are probably awful) but in my opinion, MAXes really detract from the game, more than anything else really. The game would be better off without them, with their useful teamplay elements spread to other classes.

And yes, I understand how to use C4 and Rockets to counter them, but still, ack.

I agree MAXes are a balance issue but you lost me here.

How so?

Fighting maxes is an aquired skill. Once you learn it, they're pretty easy to 1v1. Basically, you have to hit them from angles that aren't head on. Hit them with C4 from behind, or get some distance on them and shoot them, or put some rockets into them, chuck av nades at them, etc. They're a front line pusher, and do their job pretty good. They only have about the firepower of a single LMG, and move slower than normal infantry.

Max units don't really add much to the game. They are an important part of the lore tho, which is probably why they are still here.

They're not good abilities anymore, and really lockdown never was.

ScatMAXes can clear rooms of people in a few seconds, which I saw happen in the biolab alert the other day :c


Fighting/avoiding them 1v1 in the open or somewhere with less restricted movement isn't an issue (In fact, I was an AA MAX just a few hours ago that got torn to shreds by two engineers) but fighting them in a restricted base environment is just stupid since there's usually only a handful of attack angles.

Even if you do manage to get the drop on them, or use C4, they still usually have enough health to butcher you, and their engineers can repair them lickity-split.

MAXes make me sad

Maxes are really fun and they are great IMO

They are for powerful pushes against infantry, they are supposed to be able to kill infantry,m but they need support from engineers and medics or else they are not effective. They are in the game to allow forceful pushes onto an objective, or to hold key areas. They are unable to drive vehicles unable to cap points they cost a lot of resources and jave a spawn timer. They are balanced. if you are getting killed by maxes. Use C4 Rockets Concussion Grenades AI turrets, Anti vehicle grenades, flash grenades or just counter them with your max. Yes they are stronger than the average foot soldier, but they lack range speed and the ability to re spawn. They are perfect is some senerios but not all. they are balanced.

You're probably right.

Maybe I'm just not a good enough player to counter them, or I was facing particularly talented players (I've noticed Mattherson has the best players), but I'm still jaded.

They're meant to be seige breakers. It's rather hard for them to maintain this ability without becoming infantry threshers. You could make them less frustrating to play against by toning down their offence while significantly buffing their defence and utility, but that is not the route SOE chose when MAXes were implemented.

No, just no.

Well, yes.

Yes again.

Usually it takes less than 5 seconds in fact. If I had two engies following me around everywhere, I would never run anything besides Flak.

This is an exaggeration. If a dozen people focus fired on any MAX, even KA5 MAXes, it would go down very very quickly.

However, it is more common to be in the line of fire of 3, or 4 rifles, which is manageable.

In doors yes. For everywhere else, there's the Viper Lightning.

MAX crashes are awful because so many people have easy, unrestricted access to MAXes at any given time. There's very little that can be done about this at this point without SOE making significant changes to how people can access classes, weapons, abilities, etc... They went the easy route to cater to the "NOW ME ME NOW FAST" generation.

It is what it is.

MAXes that rely on brute force don`t last very long against experienced players actually. A degree of finesse is mandatory if you want to fully break the MAX. It's fairly obvious who is bringing terrain familiarity, situational awareness and experience in a MAX.... and who is not.

1) Don't let that stop you from having an opinion or the backbone to back it up with facts.

2) Don't assume your opinion meets the facts or reality in any given shape or form.

They have no real useful team play elements to spread to other classes. Aside from the Aegis shield, the MAX abilities are awful. MAXes need more utility abilities but we're left hanging with choices that are inferior to Charge (if you're TR or VS), which has 0 squad support applications beyond making banzai charges into enemy formations.

If you got rid of MAXes and made heavies tankier, people would complain about heavies. Some people are already calling the heavy's overshield a crutch, the medic's medi-tool broken, the infil's ability to quickly burst down someone by surprise in CQC or headshot from render distance "cheesy". People complain about LAs and their C4. People don't complain about engies because those engies are in vehicles, but people complain plenty about vehicles and so there it is.

MAXes are the spearhead of infantry assault. Compared to normal footman they have a lot of firepower and can take punishment but without support from engineers they are more or less like a smelly fart: irritating but quite harmless. Even a large force of MAX units will quickly get destroyed without constant maintenance from engineers.

MAXes can't capture points or overload generators. Their sole purpose is to either bolster infantry defense with more firepower or spearhead attacks towards objectives and break the defense with the support of other infantry.

Without unit collision and narrow corridors, though, they do not fulfill the purpose of smaller force defending against greater force. Something they were quite capable of doing in Planetside 1

What? A max is a powered up infantryman. Their purpose IS brute force. Strategic use of Max's can turn the tide of a battle, but its far from guaranteed.

They add plenty to the game. IMO they help to spice up infantry combat. I enjoy charging with a max led squad and i love taking a max led squad down. I like the fact that you cant just take one down in 2 seconds AD,ADing with headshots.

Poorly implemented yes.

how exactly are they "poorly" implemented? Or is it just cool to criticize? They are a powerful unit, arent too hard to kill, requires some effort and organization to turn the tide of a battle. They seem balanced for the most part (though i hate shotgun max's. i just avoid them solo).

Nice response :3

So, in other words, Sony made a mistake with balancing? I'm tempted to be sarcastic and sneer.

I'd like them to be tankier and weaker for sure, that would probably be for the best.

When I'm on my Vanu guy, I'm always seeing ZOE, about 50% of MAXes have it from what I've seen. And my NC alt always gets roflstomped by ZOE, though it's gotten better since the nerf.

But those damn TR MAXes just beat the piss out of me every single time.

You're joking, right? LESS than five seconds?!

...I may have overstated.

"A wild Prowler appeared! It used 'Instant victory!' It's super-effective! Lightning has fainted!"

Well... crap.

Rushing like a ******* into the fray is always stupid, but parking yourself like a sedan in front of an infantry charge is at least ten kills no problemo.

Well... I'm here now, aren't I?

Critical thinking 101

NS Bursters are really useful when there's no skyguards or ESF support.

That's pretty fatalistic; I think if SOE really buckled down and did their best, they could really improve the game with only a few tweaks. Like take away the HA's basic shield and give him the armour of a MAX instead, so engineers can repair him. Give the AA to Light Assaults, who can get to good vantage points and harass fighters... etc. This would be pretty prosaic stuff imo.

I play a MAX a lot on Mattherson, mostly AA and AV, but when necessary, I'll go AI.

MAXes are far from invulnerable; my MAX gets 1v1'd by players who can catch me unaware regularly. MAXes are slow, and can't watch their backs 100% of the time.

If I catch a squad by surprise, or off guard, yes, I can usually kill them all rather quickly.

But, MAX killing takes practice; but are not impossible, not even in 1v1. Though, they are not designed to be killed 1v1.

In my mind, the only MAX that is out of balance is the ScatMAX with its utter dominance in CQC. That theyre still able to burst down another MAX with just one salvo continues to be a sticking point with me. However it really says something about how brutal they were before they got nerfed last year.

Other than that, the MAX caters more to the teamplay demographic than any other infantry class. Its innate high health/resistances in a game that is basically a twitch shooter makes them incredibly valuable line pushers in CQC, but thier inability to do basically anything else means theyre heavily reliant on other classes to complete objectives and especially engineers to stay in the fighting.

Why are you complaining about the Tactical Suicide abilities? ZOE does nothing worthwhile and strips the MAX of its precious resistances for the cost.

And Lockdown might grant incredible weapon bonuses, but the weapon bonuses only really apply against other high health targets, and theyll run out of ammo very quickly if their engineer squire didnt drop an ammo box next to them, and the limited aiming arc and 3-second packup time basically means youre ****** if anything gets behind you.

They are the midway between HAs and tanks. They're also the only infantry-type units which can equip the all-important flak bursters.
I'd say they are a unit that gives PS2 its distinctness, or at the least they necessarily tie PS2 back to PS1 (without them, PS2 would feel more like a generic CoD or BF (I haven't played PS1 so I won't comment about that)).

(Lockdown MAXes are actually very poor for AI, and ZOE MAXes are almost extinct so I don't quite understand what you're talking about here)

It's true that a MAX can turn the tides, but if each side pulls an equal number of MAXes, the fight can easily turn into a stalemate. Without them, many fights would probably be much shorter. MAXes can be the most frustrating thing to fight when there's a medic or multiple engies around, but the process of killing them can sometimes be a very nice source of fun.

There's one time when I single-handedly ruined a 10+ MAX crash (a very organized NC outfit) right as they were rushing into a tower because I was standing at the right place at the right time with sticky grenades and a grenade bandolier.
I took out at least 2-3 MAXes and meds/engies on my own and an incredible chunk of all the rest of the MAXes', medics' and engineers' health, which allowed the rest of my team to clean them up very quickly. That made them give up on the tower and the fight was ours.
I couldn't wipe the smile off my face. It was probably one of my most satisfying moments in PS2.

Grenades (esp. sticky, concussion, AV, and even smoke grenades/UBGL smoke canisters) go a very long way to downing MAXes close by and any team supporting them (a sticky on a supported MAX can almost always guarantee a kill or two—if not, it will take out a pretty nice chunk of its health). And never be discouraged to dump your ammo into a lone (esp. distracted) MAX, as a full clip to the head without an engy around will definitely make them worry—they are squishier than you think (they are not meant to be 1v1'd by an infantry, unless it is a HA with concussion grenades or so).
Their firepower is actually only slightly greater than a HA's LMG (except for the NC MAX)—it's just that their armor/resist allows them to expose themselves more often with less of a fear of dying, but you can actually use that to your advantage (especially at medium to long ranges where their AI effectiveness plummets).

Max suits annoy me when people pull them in a 1-12 vs 1-12 with even pop, so they can use their skill suit to cheese the win.
When its 12v12 and half their side pulls maxes, I just rage quit and find another fight.

Those people should go to a special hell along with the rocketpodders that come to farm at 1-12 fights.

It's not the abilities that make MAXes, it's just the MAX suit's durability or in the case of NC's MAX also the firepower.

I run charge exclusively still, lockdown might occasionally help vs. vehicles but is almost never worth using vs. infantry due to how susceptible you are to rockets while being unable to strafe - and more helpless vs. C4 and just in general it's a massive hit to your survivability and I prefer to keep my MAX suit alive as long as possible.