Removing the reverse manoeuver is like taking the Ski out of Tribes...

As I said:

Bad people who dogfight lose and stop flying
Bad people who use rocketpods keep farming infantry



If you want more people in the air, give rocketpods to everyone

First things first. The reason that there are not swarms of pilots everywhere is because piloting has costs and cooldowns. Infantry does not.

Two, reducing the learning curve will not make the air game any easier for newer pilots. In fact, it will be harder.
The way things work now, someone being chased can turn the tables on their opponent and kill them back.
If the nerf goes through, defeating a chaser will be ridiculously hard, since ESFs are more maneuverable than they are fast, which means that the pursuer will almost always stay on track of his target.
I can imagine this discouraging new pilots even more than flying does now.

Third, this game's flying mechanics are unique. They're something no game has ever had before, and they allow a whole new take on aerial combat. And to dumb that down for the sake of homogenization and weapon sales is just despicable.

And for people who don't know how to fly? LEARN.
There are people willing to teach you.
There are videos on Youtube.
It's not impossible. In fact, the basic maneuvers are very easy. It's using them correctly that defines pilot skill.

Again this all assume that a player is going to spend the time to reasrech that all the moves even exist and then spend time learning. The average player doesn't do this. So you meachincs have to take into account what the average player will learn on there own in a reasonable amount of time.

The only reason i know the exists is because of the forums not from playing the game. Most players don't visit forums

Okay, so you're saying that the flying aspect of the game should cater towards people who don't want to learn how to fly?

ok, this is too much for you so i wont bother.

flying aspect of the game should cater towards benefit of ALL players.


we got max bursterer nerf. you think it is fair to leave this flying reverse crutch like it is ? btw, i can fly reverse..

Not true. I've been flying for over a week now and i manage to kill very skilled players like "ILoveBerthamon" and such.. it's not that hard.

So yea, I don't play tribes, am I supposed to know wtf you are talking about

While I'm enclined to agree that things should remain intuitive, it's a MMO.
MMOs are complex by nature. A trip to the wiki/guides is inevitable

If I want to dedicate myself to flying I'll sure as hell try to grab every bit of information available.

Skiing dates back to the beta of the original game in the franchise Starsiege: Tribes. At that time, players had jetpacks to move around the map, but had to run or use a vehicle to travel long distances. Many of the maps were large even compared to those in Tribes: Ascend, leading to fairly slow attacks on enemy bases. Early on, the players learned that if you spam the jump button while on the side of a steep hill, the game's physics would propel you down the hill and allow you to fly extremely fast across the map. When this technique was first used, it was widely believed that players were cheating somehow.
Players used the in game client side scripting language and greatly improved the efficency by automating the 'jump' command, sending it hundreds of times a second. These scripts became a necessity to download alongside the game, or code yourself. Some players believed that including 'crouch' commands improved their speed, or made them harder to hit, or just looked funny.
Meanwhile, other players had already been using the spinfusor's explosive knockback to accelerate themselves. Used with Tribes' jetpacks which allowed them to fly, players could now travel across maps faster than they could with vehicles. Eventually, use of these methods became commonplace on Tribes servers and Skiing was born.

When Tribes 2 was released, skiing had been incorporated as an actual feature in the game. Many maps were designed with skiing in mind, containing large rounding hills perfect for practicing. The game also had a training mission explaining how to ski for new players.

These changes will not affect me in the slightest, because I will continue to be incapable of flying when the mouse, which I need for precision aim, is locked to a pitch-roll configuration.

I literally cannot even begin to fly straight, let alone fight. A joystick a mouse is not, and with the way dogfights even work in this game I'm not sure a joystick would be of any help.

It doesn't help that the entire rest of the game is essentially pitch-yaw on the ground, making the flight controls counter-intuitive. The skill floor for aircraft in this game is wrong in so many ways.

So many things in this game are wrong in so many ways.

Edit: on the subject of Tribes and skiing: a high skill ceiling is good, and promotes skillful play; a high skill floor, especially one caused by unintuitive mechanics that one needs to train to overcome before even beginning to be competitive, is very very very bad (especially in pure open multiplayer, where there can be no difficulty gradient).

I'm not going to work at something in a game if it slaps me down for even trying and scorns me for daring to think I could belong. I don't put up with that **** from people. I won't put up with it from my entertainment, and neither will many others.

I never played the first Tribes, but the ones after it had learnable skiing, and the skill floor was tolerable or otherwise very low. This game's flying has a floor miles high, and there are no stairs.

Don't complain about AA. The Skyguard is still very effective. Bursters are just no longer blatantly better.

This change doesn't benefit anyone. It just simplifies flight. The best pilots (those who can lead targets) will just have an easier time because no one can turn and fight, and it will be boring. Flight will basically become flying in swarms to survive, because if you get someone on your tail, you're dead.

One of my favorite things about T:A was things that rewarded the player for speed, like GOTTA GO FAST

This isn't 100% true. I was able to do it on the test server with a Hover 3/AB Tanks Reaver. The problem is the Reaver has higher hover thrust by default and Hover 3 costs like 1000 certs total. If SOE sticks with this nerf it's not actually going to keep ace pilots from doing the maneuver, it's going to keep AVERAGE pilots from doing the maneuver. They're going to turn the skill gap into a skill chasm by making the dominant dog fighting strategy available only to people who have plenty of certs to max their air frame, and plenty of experience with the old reverse maneuver.

Moin

The nerf won't get more players into the air. The main threat aren't the few aces that'll shoot you down in seconds. The first thread a new pilot has to overcome is his own aircraft. Once he has crashed it into the ground or a mountain a few times and is able to keep his plane in the air, he has to face a damn lot of G2A that's balanced around killing/chasing off ace pilots. Players without the will to learn it the hard way give up at this point and play air only in forumside 2. The persistent players try harder and/or look on the forum and YT for guides (there are tons of very good guides out here).
The first time I have seen somebody turn around and shooting at me seemingly flying backwards I jumped to YT and searched for "planetside 2 esf guide". The first video I watched explained how to fly "backwards". I practised it for maybe half an hour or so in the warpgate and was able to perform the basic maneuver while keeping a target (one of the big pillars) in the crosshair. Today it's even easier with the VR. They could even introduce a trainingsparcour where it's explained and you could practise it. But they just intend to nerf it.

Look at it this way: Imagine you see the following patchnote on the testserver: "Strafing speed for infantry reduced to 25%. This should make strafing to avoid incoming fire still doable but dimish its efficiency and promoting the clever use of cover." Or "Turning speed for vehicles and tank turrets reduced to 25%. Magrider strafing speed reduced to 25%. This should make it easier to hit the rear armor of a vehicle and promote a thoughtful approach on your enemy."
I can't say for sure how you would react, but I would be disgusted. I know that this can't be really compared to the change to vthrust in hover, but maybe it's easier to grasp for people who don't fly.

Grüße,
regards,
the Toast

Is a SPOT on comparison. BUT

If I saw something like that I would just shrug and move on. Because! It is a VERY defining and powerful "skill" and will 9/10 yield you a victory. "Skill" because its just adad'ing not ******* rocket science. Reverse manuever "skill" is the same thing and just as powerful WHEN used, not if.

If the change occurs, all you pilots will get over it and still face melt entry level people....the problem is...what again?

Flying will get boring. I'd personally stop flying ESFs and play War Thunder or something.

Moin

Indeed. All it does is making "dogfights", especially between advanced players, way more static. Lowering the skill ceiling, but not the skill floor. Change in the wrong direction if you ask me.
Btw. I don't think that the skillfloor for flying is too high in this game anyway. In fact it's pretty easy if you can manage more than 2-3 keys. If you don't... well... how should I put this. Learn to play? I don't want to sound arrogant, I am by no means a pro, but I find it ridiculous how people want a game that's already easy to play to be even easier. Come on, this isn't hello kitty online. I know that the last years games have spoiled a lot of mediocre to average gamers with easy success, but I see nothing wrong with having to practise for a few hours before beeing able to fight top players. There are enough low-med skilled players in the air, they just get shot down by G2A too fast.

Sometimes I feel so old .

Grüße,
regards,
the Toast

The hover frame is typically the A2G frame though, dogfighting and racer are A2A. If they want it to be done in A2A roles only, wouldn't it make more sense for dogfighting to be able to do it?

You underestimate the vast power of bad players in large numbers seeing shinies.