I completely understand the need for a class to have a certain utility no one else has. The engineer can use turrets. The medic can heal himself and others at a slow rate. The infiltrator can turn invisible (unless low graphics). and the light assault can fly around. The Heavy assault's one... pretty much adds extra health. The problem i have is not the resistance to damage, but the DIRECT effect on combat. Only the medic's AOE heal helps (sorta) him in battle, but only if he gets hit a little. Getting full on hit won't save you, not even a bullet. The fact that i need to almost double the amounts of bullets thrown at an HA is... ridiculous and in my opinion shouldn't excist in a competetive game. (not competetive as in MLG PRO shizzle. Competetive as in balanced) Hopefully you understand the problem given here. Medic's allow themselves to return to normal health after and between fights. Engineers can fortify a position by using a turret, which needs time to turn on, get in and is only protected from the front. The Light assault can place itself in better places and The infiltrator can go around undetected while being unabled to to kill. The HA shield protects the user from damage in the battle with no other drawbacks from being slow and glowy. You're already slow when you shoot anyway and you only turn on the shield when you're actually under attack, so the shine doesn't warn anyone except the dumb. I'm not going to end here, just complain like a idiot, i want to fix this problem in anyway possible, but i can only think of one. An explosive HA shield. It protects the user from ONLY explosive damage, so it creates no unbalance in infantry fights, and it will absorb double the amount it normally does. This makes the HA a pure vehicle shield, what it was meant for, while also enabled to survive mines, grenades and C4. To put it into perspective, with nanoweave 5, you'll be enabled to survive one shot of a prowler cannon. Why is this balanced? First it gives no defense against normal infantry (except the poor lasher), which means HA got just as much change in a battle as anyone else. Second, this will only affect vehicles and explosives. This might be annoying for those who drive vehicles, but it will only mean it's going to cost another shot or two. How effective will the shield be and when will it be on? I'm thinking about 1500 HP of explosive damage, which works the same as the nanite mash generator, but then only Explosives. Not sure about the 1500 HP, needs to be looked at. The second one is, when will it activate. Will it activate automatically if you're hit by explosive damage, or do you need to activate it. That's enough i think, don't want to piss off to many HA friends, especially since i have 2 HA in my squad. Let me know what you think and discuss it, but be constructive .
I wouldn't mind if the shield absorbed the brunt of explosive damage. Although I play classes pretty diversely, I do have 35% of my playtime in Heavy Assault--more than any other class. I've fought as and against Heavy Assaults a lot, whether as one or not myself. And the impression I've drawn from those skirmishes is that it's balanced in the sense that Heavy Assaults are meant to be bruisers in infantry combat and survivability. I do agree that when I look at a 1v1 firefight with a Heavy Assault and an Engineer, it's not balanced in most situations. But again, the class difference there is what I equate to a Vanguard fighting a Lightning in how they are not meant to be equal but rather to take advantage of different strategies. Take, for example, the Light Assault's Jump Jets' ability to affect combat in being able to take vantage positions or escape by means otherwise impossible for other classes. So, that's really my rationalization. But, frankly, I think your suggestion is intelligent and considerate. Although I think that the Heavy Assault's heavy hand in infantry combat is a key role that most players figure out, I would personally take it or leave it for an ability that counters flak damage (considering Flak Armor 4/5 on all my classes!). 1500 could be about right, though I know it looks like a large number. It presents greater need for a direct shot and is enough to counter infantry-deployed or thrown explosives.
honestly i think the ha class has 2 real purposes, 1 to be the class that is designed specifically to be in the thick of the combat, the shield gives even more of a hint " hay this works real well in combat" trying their best to kill every infantry and vehicle in the vicinity. 2 to give the new players a class that says "here's a big fricken gun and a rocket launcher go have fun" this class is balanced because it has no utility other than destruction, this class the la and max are the same designed for destruction, the other 2 utility classes are required for almost everything else and a infil in the right place can be devastating just like the other 3 destruction class's but of a different kind. does the shield give the class to many advantages? no not really when it comes down to it i believe the shield gives 500 health flat if you turn it on the second before you get hit so that's roughly 3-4 extra rounds it takes to kill if they are body shot's also the fact that the shield takes a long time to recharge i believe it's 60 seconds at max rank makes it a once a fight kind of bonus this is the nmg, the resist shield is a better shield statistically with the user having 45% of all damage resisted for the duration of the shield if the user put the shield on before they get hit they can take another 1-2 rounds before going down, is this overpowered? not in my book because if the user takes 1-2 rounds before the shield is on then the nmg is automatically better because the whole bonus of the resist shield is effectively gone before the user knows it, so it's far more situational while the nmg is more fluid can be user far easier in more situations, i'm not going to talk about the adrenaline shield because it's not that much different than the nmg consumer has a good point the ha is effectively a mbt versus a lightning he is suppose to be better at straight up combat in general that's his whole purpose while the la is the lightning in this analogy and the max is effectively the galaxy for lack of a better vehicle analogy while the infil is the flash, all have purpose ( more or less)
To address the original question "Isn't the HA shield a little unbalanced" that easy answer is no, it's not unbalanced. Other classes (infiltrator excluded) use carbines which have faster fire rates to combat the 2-3 extra bullets a HA can eat with his shield.
First, the Nmg generator takes about 750 damage, takes around 6 shots of my 143 assault rifle to pierce through. The resist shield resists 45 % damage, this means that at rank 5 nanoweave, you will have more than 2000 HP, even rank 4 for that matter. That is DOUBLE the amount of HP a normal soldier has without nanoweave. Yes indeed, the HA class is meant for destruction, rather than fortification, regeneration or stealth. The LA isn't in my mind OP because the fact that he can fly doesn't directly affect combat effectiveness. His ability allows him to get into a flanking position or to escape through certain paths. Once combat is engaged the LA has no direct help from his ability to win. The HA does, a flat 750 HP, or the almost doubling of the HP, means that unless the HA misses it's shots twice as much as a normal soldier, he will win the fight. You are directly more powerful. It's discussable the Medic's AOE heal does the same, but it usually never gives you a bullet to spare, except at long ranges or if the enemy hits now and then. Yes, Consumer did have a good point, a MBT does not have the same purpose as a lightning, but we're forgetting these vehicles have different resource costs, actually costs resources and are manned by 1 or 2 personnel. Is a 450 costing, 2/2 manned MBT comparable towards a 300 costing, 1/1 lightning? What is comparable is Overshield, AOE heal, jet packs, etc. etc. About the ''all have purposes'', it's very clear all classes have purposes. Regeneration, fortification, flanking, infiltrating and in the HA case... just killing. I disagree with that choice. You gave a medic a healing device, and it's AOE healing to support that, but you give the HA an infantry death shield while also giving him an anti-vehicle weapon? That is why making the overshield a resister towards explosive damage a correct option, It benefits the HA in what it's target is, vehicles. Every class can kill infantry, but with a explosive resister more effective against explosions than the overshield, the HA will shine, not in killing infantry, but in killing something more effective than other: vehicles.
Faster fire rates mean close quarter weaponry. The concern is that is the HA uses the exact same type of weapon and has the same amount of skill as his enemy, no matter what happens, the overshield means the HA wins. That is what is unbalanced in my eyes, the direct effect no other class has.
If the game consisted on 1 v 1 duels then yeah, the HA would be overpowered. This game is the exact opposite of that, and you must view the organism in the system as a whole, and not individually. 1 Person in an ESF can Basically defeat anything else in the game, and yet, some people are still saying it's underpowered, and is far from being the most common unit in the field. I don't understand everyone hating on HAs. Have you played the game? Have you played as an HA? All you can do is shoot bullets, and take a little extra dmg. Additionally the over shield takes FOREVER to reload.
An argument i can agree on, this game is not balanced around 1vs1, it doesn't change my mind of balance though. I'm not randomly saying: ''HA is OP''. I actually have played the class a lot, 25 BR's to be precise and that is where i'm drawing my conclusions from, the shield makes you an unstoppable infantry killing machine doubling it's HP for movement i don't use while at the same time i get frustrated by having to shoot 5 more bullets before the enemy HA drops. This change will decrease the HA infantry effectiveness in HP while doubling it's resistance towards vehicles using explosives to make the HA an anti-vehicle unit, not an anti-everything unit Also, thanks for all the comments everyone! I appreciate all your opinions in this discussion.
I don't mean to be an *** in my replies it's just what i see that the ha class is designed for with killing being their only purpose and in my opinion ha is the most mundane class but still completely effective in it's purpose.
The Heavy's purpose IS to be able to go up to someone and beat them, actually. That's what the shield is for. They're like the Light Assault. Their purpose is nothing but killing, so everything they have suits this. The Light Assault is made to flank, the Heavy Assault is made to punch a hole.
no, the HA shield isn't not unbalanced. (nice triple negative you got there!) the HA is supposed to be the soldier class able to take more damage, inf and LA are your scouts and eng and med are your support, HA are the grunts.
You don't really sound like an ***, so don't worry. Your main point is that you're seeing the HA as a class that is meant to be either an effective killing machine or an infantry destroyer. That is exactly what i disagree with. I feel like the HA is meant to carry big weapons which enable him to not only take down infantry like everyone else, but also vehicles, especially vehicles. It's his job. Sure, the LA bomber is doing it better, but i want to change that. The HA will stay the soldier on the front, but without his increased resistance against infantry fire. He still has the LMG, one of the best weapon types. The HA will still be the first to go into the fray. I don't know, adding HP as a special ability feels cheap for me. It would be the same as if the AOE heal healed instantly. As if the Jet packs made you immune. As if cloak made you resist small arms or as if turrets were shooting 150 mm bullets at you. Well, at least it's keeping MLG a few miles away...
The Heavy Assaults purpose isn't to kill infantry though. That's simply part of how they perform their role. They're basically a support class. Their role is to protect other infantry. <------------------------------------ The first person through the door is the Heavy Assault. The guy who fights back vehicles, aircraft, and MAXes is a Heavy Assault. The guy who can mow down a Light Assault trying to C4 the sunderer one second, they return suppressing fire to an Infiltrator over the hill the next is a Heavy Assault. The shield is what allows them to reliably do this. It lets them take the fire when they turn the corner and kill at least one guy before dying (or more with adrenaline). It lets them take the splash from an HE round so they can get that rocket off. It gives them just enough health to turn the corner and hit the MAX with a decimator. Etc. Point being, you're not supposed to be able to go up to an equally skilled Heavy Assault in a fair situation and have a good chance at winning (solo). If you want to, you need situational advantage, to be more skilled, or be a Heavy Assault. It's just part of their role in this game. I've thought a lot about this actually.
have to say i will agree to disagree with you on a number of points as i have written off-topic: have to say it's enjoyable to talk to somebody whose not foaming at the mouth on these forums
I do agree that HA shields are a bit much. I have like 96% of my time in the HA and since getting Resist shield, my KD has jumped a good 1.5 or so, maybe more. If I was to change anything in this game, it would be how damage is calculated and add some usefulness to the Composite Armor Composite Armor would be added in small pieces by upgrading Nano Weave, not as a SC item. All classes, except the Infil would get an innate 30% damage reduction when a round strikes the armor. Infil would get no armor protection, but I would change cloaking. LA would have light protection, with only a default HA breastplate, lower leg protection, shoulder plates and armored forearm pieces. CM would get moderate armor coverage, an HA Composite chest piece, armored boots and lower leg protection along with armored gloves and forearm pieces Engineer would get the current HA composite armor set, minus the upper arm piece and armored gloves. HA would get it's current armor set and at Nano 5, would get additional coverage on the lower back, around the edges of the shoulderplates, on the upper knee pad and a small neck plate that would extend kinda like a Bombsquad suit neck piece. Also, the HA would get 35% reduction at Nano 5. MAX Would get its 70% reduction vs bullets and a 80% reduction when hit in the chest plate. Headshot damage would be reduced by 70% as well. Doubled, then reduced by 70%. It to would get a Nano Weave Armor upgrade, and once at Nano5, would add 10% to all damage reduction. Also, as the MAX lvl'd up Nano, it would recieve 10%, dmg reduction when hit by rockets, up to 50% reduction at Nano5. At Nano 5, rocket chest hits would be reduced by 75%. Explosive resistance would be natural 50%, up 5% per lvl of Nano. So, yaeh, they would be tough. Also, explosions would get a natural 20% reduction when hitting infantry and Heavies would get a 30% reduction vs explosives. Then, I would remove the Heavy Shield entirely. The Heavy would be the most armored and get the most reduction but other classes would have some reduction and ability to take hits like a heavy. Obviously the HA would be the most protected and overall toughest still, but it wouldnt be a 45% reduction shield that no other class can get. HA should be the "best" infantry guy, hes the heavy, the leader, in Everquest or WoW, the "TANK".
For some unknown reason you think that all classes should have fair fighting chances against each other. Well, you're wrong. Heavy Assault is the soldier. He fights. All other classes, except MAX, only there to support him. You're not supposed to win in 1 v 1 with heavy, that's exactly why he is the main fighting force. If classes in squads were organized automatically, each squad would have 1 engineer, 2 medics and 9 heavies with an option to switch to MAX or LA or Infil if situation calls for it. What? Heavy kills me in 1 v1? I can say only "duh" to that. That's the way it's supposed to be. HA is not an "AV bot". He's the class that has answer to any threat.
IMHO the main purpose of the Heavy is to live long enough until the rest of their friendlies may gain a foothold towards their objective of their push. They press the assault, die in the process, but hopefully have killed just a bit more so that the rest of the friendlies may advance just that little bit more, and then they get revived by the Combat Medics. The difference with the MAX is that the MAX is meant for direct and constant contact with the opponent, while the Heavy is more versatile and mobile. Other classes have higher RoF weapons available to them, but both the shield, RoF and magazine sizes available to HAs point to the fact that the other classes get a chance to out-DPS them, but the HA tries to out-tank them and get a couple more kills or assists before going down. Same with the launcher, a tool to help the infantry push deal with any countering vehicles, so the infantry may advance. This is not a 1v1. Each class serves a purpose and fills a role. Heavies and MAXes shield an advance or defense, LAs skirmish on the flanks and above the opponent, Combat Medics cover the HAs, Engineers support from the rear, Infiltrators disrupt. Of course it is more complicated and fluid than this, but as a general outline I believe it describes the purpose and thus the tools available to each class.
I´ll post the same thing what I did to previous HA thread: The core problem of HA is that everyone is using them, no matter where you go fighting there will be always Heavy Assaults against you. Its no wonder, HA has the most firepower and survivability of all infantry units, its basically suitable choice for every situation. That is perfectly fine, since that is what the class was made for, but the problem is that whenever you face HA as some other infantry class, your choices are: 1. Fight and hope he is a bad player 2. Get killed because he was a good player 3. Back off and let other HAs deal with him or be killed while trying to do so. The third choice is the problem, since Heavy Assault can move the exact same speed as every other infantry unit, so there is no running away from them, good players go after you and kill you. There will always be more HAs than support classes, so thats why they should have better changes to get away from HAs, because they cant win them in equal fire fights. So here is the question: Why the most powerful infantry unit for every situation have the same movement speed as every other class? They they are carrying the most powerful weaponry in the terms of firepower and a shield, which even further increases their powerfulness, so its the most reasonable change to make them a bit slower than every other class.(or buff the movement speed of other classes) Its just a bad game design that someone with powerful ability like a shield + LMG and RL can keep up with the movement speed of every other class. The more powerful you are, the more slower you become, its a very basic system used in majority of online shooters and even in single player games. Everyone can agree that HA is without a doubt the most powerful all around infantry unit in the game, so change like this is good way to balance them. People who dont understand this doesn´t just have any idea what balance in online shooters mean.
I used to complain HA was OP when I would go headup with them as a LA.. Then I started playing HA as TR and realized I was right. You own any non heavy in 1v1 even if they shoot first.. But I guess that is the way it is meant to be, roll heavy or stay outside the main battle.
As infantry I play pretty much only HA and Medic, and you are forgetting something OP. There is another thing that affects class balance greatly other than the class ability: the weapon. Assault rifles dominate LMGs in every single combat scenario, and carabines are superior too. Their only drawback in respect to LMGs? Ammo capacity. If you can land those bullets it's a pretty fair fight 1v1.
