The numbers show how OP NC MAX is

Shotguns arn't the one close combat solution
Gives to the other max "SMG like" weapons: high rof but medium accuracy and high bloom. It will fits at least better to the TR/VS trait. (ROF,accuracy and less damages/shot than NC)

Everyone knows the HackMAX needs a little nerf. I do mean LITTLE, by the way. Like maybe nerfing fire rate so they can't melt an enemy MAX in under a second. Please stop posting these threads, we already know about it.

Part 1: This may be your experience but not mine.

Part 2: 12-24 man Max drops happen on Waterson quite often to break up defenses. Doesn't have to be a biolab if they move in an organized way. Watch DVS outfit's stream tonight, I guarantee Blackbird will use a max drop at least once.

Part 3: I don't think it'd be dramatic one way or the other, because see points 1 and 2. Variation across different servers, when it comes to tactics mind, make it impossible to make broad sweeping statements like this.

Part 4: For once I think we have something we can agree on.

Moving forwards makes win battles. Staying at range not.

You see when your indoors the only effective way to park would be like engie turrets... Engies can dismount in an instant when they get shot at, even then they still get insta-gib'd by rockets or hs. If the deployment is exactly like ps1 we will be a sitting ducks waiting for rockets to hit us. Being mobile on a max is the only way to play a max... Even as AA I wouldnt bother I do pretty good without being planted on the floor vs Air, most of the time they fly away before you can actually shoot them down. And no I wont 1 v 1 a liberator the tank buster or Zeph/Dalton hurts, man they will be happy to see TR Maxs planted to one location...

You forgot generator rooms, capture points, towers...

I think this all hinges on 2 things that neither of us can predict

1.) The speed at which you deploy and undeploy.

2.) The benefits given a max suite in deploy mode.

Huh I thought the hacks had about 4x the burst not 2x, oh well. Anyway one thing that needs to be consdiered is frequently not considered is that shotguns suffer from a very agresive damage fall off, going down to ~60 per shot, whereass other weapons only go down about one damage step (so 125 for TR), vanu a bit more (they start higher though so it goes down to about the same?). Esentialy at point blank NC will tear your face off, but even ignoring the shotgun spread patern it doesnt take a lot of range for the dps advantage to switch over to the other factions.

well it depends on many factors, the least of which is not what locking down buffs. The heavies in Nuclear Dawn for example has a lockdown that was VERY usefull, even though there were high speed cloaked enmies with one hit kill bag stab weapons around as well as sniper that could kill a heavy in 2 shots to the face. And all that lockdown did was increase acuracy, of course that would let you snipe heads from across the map with a minigun so that was pretty great. A massive acuracy increase/bloom decrease would be more than worth it. A reload increase would be more or less usless though, though if it let you pull ammo from your ammo pool instead of your mag that could be neet. A fire rate or damage per shot increase would be more situational. And of course how long it takes to deploy/undeploy makes a big difference on how vulnerable you are. Also consider AA and AV maxes, AA maxes tend to be kind of in the open anyway, and AV are doing bombardment, neither of which are particularly prone to flanking manuvers. Also consider using al ocked down TR max like a NC max, which are also are vulnerable to "as much as 6 entrances", esentialy position yourself to the side of the doorway with the edge of your rotation just covering as they enter and the rest of your rotation covering the interior of the building, which leaves most of your "backside" covered by wall, heck TR have enouph aditoinal range you can park yourself in a corner and cover the entire room with no blindside at all.

Now I also have never played ps1, though my understanding is that maxes were 100% imune to small arms fire (but had weaker weapons) and required anti vehicle weapons (or special AV ammo in regular weapons) to hurt at all.

I like how when the shotgun on the max is like loljk im sniperrifle now.

The state of forum for this moment.

Think of it like this, when you play your infiltrator dont you hate it when your target moves for even 1 sec, you have a 50/50 change on hitting your target, myself I love people sitting there not moving so I can insta HS them with my ram .50. The dev's will have to give us a serious defensive boost or insta deploy to move right away once we see an HA with the rocket launcher or grenades. In every instance I replay this in my head with a lockdown deployment I see us getting a nerf or no benefit.

If this is the guy I think it is, he's not happy with the answer:

We'll be receiving common-pool flamethrowers in the near future, that deliver a comparable TTK. Unfortunately, this means that the Scattergun and Hacksaw will not be receiving a nerf.

The MAX crash tactic is only ever used on entrenched targets, which given the nature of PS2, are in buildings. Scattermaxes shine when in buildings, not just biolabs, but any building. It's just that biolabs are the largest interior where large battles take place, so that's where they're primarily used. However the odd max crash isn't what I was referring to. Look at any battle with NC, even large facility battles for amp stations or tech plants. You'll only ever see a max here or there, not that many. In normal play scattermaxes are only really used in biolabs. There will always be exceptions to the rule, but for the most part scattermaxes are relegated to biolab fights.

I'd just like to see the VS/TR maxes get buffed. I've always been a proponent for buffing things, rather than nerfing. Instead of nerfing scattermaxes, buff the TR/VS to better perform their roles. The VS max should basically be a sniper with their zero bullet drop, they should excel at extreme range and be most suited for outdoor combat. TR maxes should have a MUUUUCH higher rate of fire and be best at medium range, so you'd see these primarily in facilities like amp stations and tech plants.

The scattermax, as I will always say, is working as intended. Any brokenness is on the TR/VS end and as such, they should be buffed to match. I felt the same way about MBTs. I always felt the Magrider was working properly, just the Vanguard and Prowler needed to be buffed to match. We should buff things, not nerf them.

When it comes to maxes, killing them wins battles. Doesn't matter what range you do it at.

Organization is everything.

I'm seeing deployed maxes potentially being amazing, -if- used with support. 1 engi with a lvl 5 gun could make these things mobile turrets. The way it works now, the only thing that anchors is the Prowler. Anchored prowlers recieve a boost to their shot velocity and the reload speed. Max reload speed isn't that big of a deal. Shot velocity could be something, it could effectively bump a TR max up to being a medium to long range weapon if you tighten the COF, something already done by crouching. So, now we have a weapon that can sit up on a roof and spray down into a courtyard, landing many shots. If it boosts defense or HP, we are still good. Currently the only weapon that can 2 shot a max is a Decimater. More HP, means that, that same max, can avoid getting killed by 2 shots of a decimater, raising ttk. Now, ignoring that many people don't carry the decimater, you've got to have organized Dumbfire squads (Which to my knowledge, don't exist) to expertly take out max in that situation. Also, anchoring speed really matters. If it takes a solid 5-10 seconds to deploy, then these things will need to have some Major health or defense boosts. If it doesn't take long at all, then we are talking something that can deploy at the top of a stairwell, spray down into oncoming infantry, scare everyone off, and then undeploy in time to start picking people off.

Go look at the numbers, SMG aren't as high DPS at 0m as Shotgun.

Conversly if they were to be made as high DPS at 0m then they would be extremely overpowered from 8m to 30 or even 50m out.




Plus, of course, the NC would need to be given long range AI weapons that equalled the TR and VS ones.

I really hope they test it, I would love to try a squad vs squad simulation before they even attempt a full release of this... Ive always been a move and go guy and hated to be locked down, always felt vulnerable when Im just standing around. Many times Ive been killed standing around because Im looking at my map in full view or afk smoking and Im at a point lol.

This guy is effective as a MAX because he knows how to use it.

I'm an idiot...I would have just run into that room with 4-5 enemies and taken out as many as I could before I died.
He takes out one or two, backs out to reload, goes back...etc. It's his PLAYSTYLE that allows him to be successful in the MAX suit...not his weapons.

OFC they wont do anything about the NC Scat-max, Most of all the Devs play em.

To the points on maxes, again: Agreed for once even in elaboration.

I would say nerfing and buffing need to happen to equal degrees though. Current situation where everything gets nerfed doesn't work too well. Some things need to be nerfed, some things need to be buffed. Your statements on VS and TR maxes though, those buffs would make a lot of sense. I say that the VS need a better use though, but for the life of me, I don't know what it is. NC being close range experts is fine. TR being medium range experts works, but it'll mean that they still do a lot of damage at close range... which is good, because it buffs them against NC maxes and puts those two on par again. I think VS maxes being long range masters though runs into diminishing returns.

Allow me to explain. Short to medium range, you may deal with the max counters like, prox mines and the occasional pump action shotgun/concussion gernade combo, but you wont deal with many long range issues... IE Rockets. A long range weapon on a max suite would be less effective, because when deployed in open field, anyplace where "Long Range" comes into play, your also putting Vehicles and rockets into the mix. Maybe the VS could be more of an Anti-vehicle weapon to compensate.

People are leaving in droves because of this obscenity. Nerf the damn NC maxes already!