* Haven't used the other NC AI MAX guns, so I won't comment. I'm BR 68... have my Auraxium medals on the ScatMAX and closing in on the HackMAX. Stats show I'm quite a bit more effective with the HackMAX. For HackMAX * reduce the increased magazine size to 11 or 10. * consider a reduction in the rate of fire... not sure if this would actually BE a nerf, though... often, I actually nerf myself by quickly over-shooting and getting myself stuck in reload. * slightly decrease reload time. For ScatMAX * increase the increased magazine size to 13 or 14 * slightly increase reload time. In the present overall balance environment... where shotguns do what they do and Decimators/dumbfire missiles do what they do, the notion that these MAX units shouldn't insta-gib infantry at close range is silly. That's what they are there for. I do think the above tweaks would help better define the roles for each AI-variant, however.
Well, the current situation is here because of people trying to facetank Scat MAXes at 5 metres. It won't improve until their IQ improves, which is unlikely at best.
I'm BR2 and the hackmax is awesome. Sure i payed to win but duel auto shotguns are awesome. The slower rate of fire would actually be a bonus as i have found bursts win the day. Though if the enemy was smart and engaged me at range they would live longer. So far i've just seen them charge me.
Either lower the RoF of all NC shotguns, just like TR/VS MAXes has had their weapons RoF severely lowered when compared to their counterparts (Carbines/LMGs respectively). Or buff TR/VS MAX units to fire at the same rates of fire as their mentioned infantry weapon counterparts. Last, but not least, give TR/VS shotguns as well & give NC TR/VS MAX weaponry. I like the 2nd option the most.
This. Buff the RoF of both TR and VS MAXes, tighten their CoFs so they're both a little more accurate at range. I would say, buff the RoF of the TR MAX more heavily and increase their magazine size, make those TR MAXes spray like crazy. Buff the CoF of the VS MAX more heavily to make them more accurate, a lot more accurate, and give them faster reload times than they currently have. VS weapons in general are supposed to be more accurate, I just can't see why VS MAXes do not follow this philosophy at all. This should increase their effectiveness against infantry, hopefully to around the effectiveness of the NC MAX. To balance MAX vs MAX combat, I would rather see the resistance against MAX AI weapons be heavily increased as well, this way NC MAXes can't gib TR or VS MAXes the way they do now, and all empire MAXes can withstand more small arms fire than they current do. Rather than give all MAXes shotguns, I would rather see more interesting avenues of weapon balance be explored. I've mentioned in a few places how VS MAXes could do with knock-back or related positioning type weapons that are able to KEEP CQC specialists at range. TR could have further RoF boosts on MAX abilities, without having to go into some anchor mode - think, 2-3 second RoF buff that goes on a long cooldown. This would allow them to throw out some extreme burst damage for a small, limited time and they would not have access to any MAX charge should things go South for them.
As is my usual argument; people don't pull MAXes to fight outdoors in medium range, as a normal infantry will fare much better in that situation. People pull MAXes to absorb and deal damage indoors, in close quarters, and the NC MAX best fits that ideal.
Rather than nerf ScatMAXes, I'd like to see other empires get more options and buffs. Give VS and TR a tighter CoF so they can hit reliably at 30m and semi reliably at 50m. Give them the option to buy soft-point ammo so they have a CQC ammo option the way NC can get slugs for longer ranges. NC remains king of the hill in CQC but now VS and TR can actually compete and their range advantage means something. Really, MAXes should have 90 to 95% damage reduction from small arms - MAX v MAX battles should be agonizingly long using AI weapons, and AV weapons should be the weapon of choice to deal with MAXes. This would also have the additional bonus of making the Annihilator undesirable as it can't be used to fire into a MAX.
I wasn't really trying to change the situation a ton. As long as there are things like Decimator/Dumbfire... tank mines... C4... other MAX units... shotguns... there are plenty of ways to deal with NC MAX units. Those may not all win you a fight at close range - and they shouldn't - but they are capable of putting a hurt on. The problem is that a lot of people don't want to switch their style and prefer to do the typical shoot their automatic weapon, while closing ground. As it stand now, HackMAX looks like an obvious and significant buff over ScatMAX (At least by my stats). I thought those changes would slightly reduce the room-destroying power of a HackMAX - it would have to stop the carnage and reload sooner, having dealt less overall damage in a flurry... and it would also further define the role of the ScatMAX... not-automatic, greater magazines, more potential damage before reloading - but likely less accurate or at least in less of a flurry... longer downtime reloading.
My gripe isnt the instant kill they get on infantry. But speaking as a TR MAX user its insane that a NC MAX can take down a TR/VS MAX in under a second. Running dual cyclers right now I can kill infantry pretty fast, not as fast as a NC MAX. But enough to make up for the increased range.
This is why so many people are suggesting that MAXes in general get a buff to their infantry weapon resistances. This way, NC scat variants simply won't be able to do the damage to other MAXes that they currently do. This allows for MAX to MAX balance without changing any weapon properties of any of the MAXes. TR and VS MAXes could still do with a bit of tweaking on their weapons - as personally I think TR guns need MORE RoF than they currently have as well as larger magazine sizes to make up for it. VS MAXes need waaaaaay more accuracy than they currently have, and more interesting weapon options in general, since lets face it, their current weapon set is extremely boring.
Yeah, we should. Right now the TR/VS MAX weapons are basically the same outside of look. But I agree, at least we get flamethrowers soon.
No matter what the changes, you've got to be honest about what you want the results to be. Let's say there are basically 2 ranges that MAX fight each other at... close and medium-ish. At close range, If the NC MAX is going to win, #1 - it has to be able to kill the VS/TR MAX in one (dual) magazine of ammo before the TR/VS MAX can tear it down. If it is necessary to reload... then the TR/VS MAX is more powerful at close range. #2 - you've got to assume both MAX units are using similar weapons... ie the one that is best for close range combat. So... at close range, assuming both start firing at exactly the same moment, what % of health should the NC MAX have left over... assuming neither MAX has any other defenses? And then... same scenario with both MAX units firing at medium range. What % of health should the NC MAX be able to take off, before dying? I feel like a lot of TR/VS want to either eliminate the NC MAX vs. MAX close-range advantage... or trim it so that it is very small... while saying nothing about the extreme advantage these MAX units hold at medium range.
So people they are going to give the NC MAX a shield in June and a flame-thrower in March. hows the balancing going ??
The NC MAX has near instant-kill capabilities with shotguns, and the TR/VS do not. Either the NC MAX is brought in line with VS/TR, or the VS/TR variants are buffed so everyone has the capability. I think instant-death from something as common as a MAX is boring gameplay, and I think we would enjoy the game less if that direction is taken. Raise skill cap and versatility on MAXes instead of just raw killing power.
Yeah, because the game has no choke points where you have to push through to take your objectives. No choke points where ScatMaxes can sit just inside and force you to "facetank" them at 5 meters, clogging their guns with guts and gruel so the next guy can actually land a solid rocket shot. Nothing like that whatsoever in the game... except at most generator rooms, the main doors at a Tech Plant, virtually the entirety of the BioLab, and, well, at most every base and outpost for that matter. Really, at anything you might consider a "building" with a "doorway."
If you love the BR2s with splatMAXes, I can't wait for you to meet the BR52s who actually know how to use em. All kidding aside, I want to address some stuff right now. I've seen plenty of NC players argue before that buffing other MAXes would eliminate NC's CQC advantage while maintaining and augmenting the mid-range advantage TR and VS MAXes have over NC. This is a valid point. Except, this is why most of the experienced MAX players on all sides want MAX resistance to small arms fire (which includes MAX AI weapons) to be significantly buffed. This would eliminate any sort of advantage any faction's standard AI setup would have over any others. So yes, NC MAXes would not be able to insta-gib TR and VS MAXes, and likewise, TR and VS MAXes would not be able to just dominate an NC MAX at range. All MAXes would have to pull AV weaponry to deal with other MAXes - and frankly those AV weapons all need buffing too (again mostly for the TR and VS, though the Falcon could do with some tweaks as well). That or leave the job to Decimators and C4, which in skilled hands are already doing a fine job of cutting MAXes down. Note that buffing MAX resistance to small arms would have no effect on MAX survivability against rockets and explosives anyway so the most effective infantry counters to MAXes will still remain... the most effective infantry counters to MAXes. Buffing the Rate of Fire and magazine size of TR MAXes, tightening the accuracy of the VS MAXes, all that should come in addition to the buffing of MAX resistance to small arms fire. You're right, if you give TR and VS MAXes a huge DPS boost in CQC without changing the NC MAX right now, you ARE basically allowing TR and VS MAXes to all of a sudden swat around NC MAXes at all effective MAX ranges, but that`s not what we`re asking for. (By we, I mean, the ones here who aren't posting complete and utter nonsense, the rest of the dredge you can safely ignore). TR and VS MAXes do need the buff and VS MAXes need their weapons fixed as Cosmos and Blueshifts behave in a completely borked manner compared to their official descriptions. If people are complaining that MAXes completely dominate infantry, all I can say is this - if in one entire full platoon's worth of folks, there is not at least 2 or 3 people who are skilled enough to deal with any MAX with their standard infantry classes, that zerg deserves to get the **** farmed out of it until I can afford every other unlock this game has to offer. I know on my server, there are a great many players who have been able to adapt to fighting MAXes, even NC splatMAXes at close quarters. Especially TR players, some of those guys are really good. They actually employ effective tactics (how dare they!), use all the tools given to them (absurd!), set up ambushes with concussion and anti-vehicle grenades (no wai!), fire decimators at reloading MAXes (obscene!), C4 or AT MAXes from unpredictable vantage points or through doorways (think of the children!). Craziness, I know. It's almost as if they're demonstrating "Tactical Superiority" or something. Oh wait.
The main ballance difference between NC MAXes and the other two, is what NC get a fully "potent" shotgun for each hand, while what TR and VS got for their MAXes is the gimped versions of their HAs weapons. They need to be buffed so single arm will be equal to CARV and Orion performance.
That's a good point. I too have noticed what to take out NC MAXes you need to assemble an organised group. They're like a a dungeon bosses. While with TR and VS maxes you can just pop out the corner, fire rocket, go back, rinse and repeat. No special tactics needed.
