[Lore] Magic in Halas

I've heard it mentioned that Halas will be a human city without magic. This got me wondering to what degree the use of magic is frowned upon in the city. Would a Halasian warrior returning home with a glowing new magic-imbued sword draw negative attention similar to a wizard with a magical aura? In some cases I would think the attitude towards magic and enchantments would put the citizens at an obvious disadvantage. In terms of gameplay, I suppose item benefits could be explained without magic, such as being martial in origin, but it would still cause some frustration to have to swap out any arcane gear each time I want to enter the city. Maybe the source of the magic plays a role as well, such as a primyr being more acceptable than a mithyr. What are your thoughts on this?

I think it's a bit overstated, Halas's unfondess for magic. They just don't seem like the superfluous sort. They'd prefer to just use torches as opposed to fancy magelight. I don't know if they're going to be outright hostile to magic users or those who have magical items. They'd be stupid to do so, especially if magic users or wielders of magical items are helping them. But I think they just prefer to build Halas with more grounded, earthly materials as opposed to the supernatural.

That would make a lot of sense. It could be more of a preference for doing things the "old-fashioned way" than an actual disdain or hatred for magic and magic-users.

Seems Qeynos is more about making an impressiong and showing off their power. Halas was a city built out of necessity after the Dragon War and likely FAR less magical.

I'd imagine the north not being nearly as rich and those that make it rich leave the north. Wealth usually breeds education and education in Norrath likely leads to magic...so without that infrastructure I imagine magic being far less prevalent and only seen in magic places like magic shops, schools, and the like.

Instead of Qeynos where most are educated as it's the center of culture for the continent and the Combines adventures abroad lead those form all over the world to go back to Qeynos...Halas on the other hand is purely a city catering to those in the North and possibly to ferry out resources in the region to other locations.

So yeah, I just don't think Halas has the infrastructure to support magic all over and I feel the inhabitants don't necessarily despise it...unless some magic involved event ruined their lives....oh wait....the Ashfall.

Whether or not they blame basic magic for the Ashfall is unknown but it could be the link you're looking for if they truly do hate magic. Since as far as they know the Ashfall brought the dragons to Norrath, the dragons destroyed their great city, their towns nearby, their entire way of life. They've been picking up the pieces ever since trying to return to their former glory.

The seeds of the northerners' distaste for magic dates back to the Takish occupation of Bayle. The elves employed magic as one of the tools of subjugation, something the humans would not soon forget.

After the founding of Halas, the city's leaders obviously understood the necessity of magic as a resource. But rival clans sought control over certain relics left behind from the struggle against the dragons, leading to an outbreak of hostilities that would come to be called the Iron War. The fallout from this destruction caused Halas' most magically inclined clan and its followers to break away and found their own settlement elsewhere.

So it's not that magic isn't practiced in Halas--the northerners have a strong belief in the Four and the primal forms of magic associated with their gods. It's more that it isn't welcome as a scholarly pursuit as it is among many other races. Halasians are expected to survive on their wits and strength, and to rely solely upon magic is considered a weakness.

Veeeery interesting...

Odus, perhaps?

It was honestly my first thought. Sure would make a bit of sense.

Makes sense. It would be a shame not to see shamans among the Halasians seeing as that was a somewhat famed race/class combination through EQ1. Assuming shaman makes it in as one of the forty classes I'd imagine that the northern tribes just might be a place to go to pick it up.

Already being occupied by the Erudites, but I suppose they might share given the right incentive.

No, no. The speculation here surrounds whether or not the Erudites were descended from the magically inclined clan of Halasians that left after the Iron War to form their own settlement elsewhere. That elsewhere, under this theory, would be Odus. Perhaps Erud was the leader of this clan, taking a small fleet to leave Bayle and sail south looking for a new home until they find the spire in the Kerra Isles.

The implication is that Halas' most magically inclined clan are the Erudites.

Halas and the iron war were founded and fought after the dragon wars. Remember, they have a disdain for magic from being suppressed for so long by the dal with magic.

And the Erudites definitely were already on Odus AND already founded Erudin at the beginning of the dragon wars.

See my response to Swamp Tao.

From "The Last Stand of the Teir'dal" regarding Quin'Sari (in reference to Moorgard saying the Iron War took place "after the struggle against the Dragons").

I posit that the hostilities he's referring to with the Halasians took place early on in the Takish Empire, before the most current Dragon War the ebooks cover; plenty of time for the clan to leave and become the Erudites on Odus.

I was almost ready to admit defeat to you Giren. But that "last dragon war" tidbit had been bouncing around in my head for quite some time. I couldn't remember where I'd seen it, so I combed the forums and then the ebooks. That single line in The Last Stand of the Tier'dal is about the ONLY line I could really find on the fact that there was a war with the Dragons before the one shown in most of the ebooks. Possibly the most esoteric bit of lore I've pulled out to save one of my theories, hehe.

It is an interesting theory, I will admit.

Here's where timelines get tricky though. Moorgard said himself in a post in this thread

"The seeds of the northerners' distaste for magic dates back to the Takish occupation of Bayle."

For your theory to work, Halas would have had to have been founded and the Iron War fought while the occupation was still going on.

Because the occupation ended with the Ashfall. And the Ashfall brought the dragon wars. And it is in the e-book, The Arch Mage Part 1, page 18 near the top:

"“The Erudites have made their feelings plain in the past. I doubt they’ll help us now that we’re winning, just as they wouldn’t provide us refuge when all hope seemed lost. I’m afraid their magic will continue to elude us.”"

It's the line provide refuge that really strikes it home. There had to be an established presence of Erudites at the beginning of the dragon war in Odus.

Oh, and something tells me, Miragul would have more likely crushed any large force trying to establish an independent city of "lessers", and taken any magical artifacts for himself were he around.

EDIT: In the end, it all comes down to when Halas was founded. I see 3 options, two of which could make your theory a reality.
1. It's founded during Valinor's reign.
2. It's founded during Miragul's reign.
3. It's founded after the Ashfall.

I'm having trouble finding a direct quote (outside of the wiki listing for the Dal Era), but I believe elven dominance lasted for two thousand years. Now, I interpret dominance as the time when they started subjugating other races (or at least the acquisition of High Magic) to when they stopped.

If the Takish Empire truly lasted for two thousand years, then there would be ample time for the Iron War to have taken place and the clan of Halasians to sail away looking for a proper settlement.

I'm sure "when all hope seemed lost" probably refers to the destruction of Dal holdings on Faydwer. If my thoughts prove to hold any water, then they'd have easily set themselves up as Erudites by that time. Also, the Ashfall brought the second Dragon War, if that quote about Quin'Sari holds true.

However, with a two thousand year time span to work off of (even taking into account a few hundred years here or there for different events) then there would still be plenty of time for the Halasian clan to sail along the coast, finding no safe haven wherever they go (thanks a lot Miragul!) Eventually they spot an archipelago to the west of the coastline off Rathetyr and decide to follow, leaving the mainland behind until it's out of sight, in the hopes of finding a proper place to call home. There's no telling how far the Kerra Isles stretch out into that ocean, but they eventually find the spire and settle on Odus (possibly setting up a city in the Kerra Isles to guard the spire; left over from when they were figuring out how to unlock it). With a two thousand year window, I'd say the Erud Clan could certainly have had time to spend a few generations on Odus, physically changing and unlocking the mysteries of Psionics as they delve, untouched into mystical study.

I love lore speculation

Ah, but it's not elven dominance. It's Takish dominance. I would say it's very distinct, because the Takish Age began at the end of the Shissar War and all the mistrust of the other races began.

The Dal Era as a whole lasted roughly two thousand years, the Takish Age only being a part of it.

So you've got the severe mistrust of the other races, and Valinor or Miragul let a war happen in THEIR kingdom?

And you are right, the when all hope seemed lost does probably refer to the destruction of Dal holdings on Faydwer.

If the Halasians are discovering the Kerra Isles... are you suggesting that Kerrans either were unknown to the dal during the Takish Age, or they were keeping their home a secret? The former isn't true, as the Kerrans had an affinity to Shadeline that they wouldn't have known about if not for the elves and their use of high magic to travel to other "worlds" like Shadeline and Akashidak. I find the latter to be hard to believe as well, because before the Shissar War was the Age of Allies, when the races worked together.

So... where's the plenty of time now?