Thats it? no more posts about the paladin Mythical? Just going to take that 2nd rate weapon and use it? You are all happy with a "clicky" on your Tank epic? its ok that another tank has a Tower shield and 100% double attack when buffed? If the paladin community is truly happy that the epic has a "clicky" and that guards have 100% double attack with a Tower shiled, then my friends. you are not true Tanks. True Tanks should fight for the MT posiotions. Not let it get handed too Guards because SOE has ****** them out for the last 3-4 years. The only reason i can see that you would be ok with that weapon is you dont have what it takes to MT raids. So useing that crap box epic keeps you from being MT. Give Paladins Holy Ground and then give them a clicky Myhical? Are you kidding?? Look, Give paladins a Mythical that "Manipulates" our AA line just like the "other" tank. Example---> Mythical when equipped provides 100% stoneskin from DA, lower recast of DA 50%. Example-2. Mythical when equipped- ever time you block or parry ,shield effectiveness goes up 20% for 15 seconds. there are many ideas out there. My guard is lvl 79. Ill be a super tank soon enough. but my first and true class is a paladin. But i wont let my love for the paladin class get in the way of being the best tank one can be. Flame me call me what you want. There should have NEVER been 1 tank to tank them all.
When people are unhappy, and don't complain, that is when you're losing business. Something I heard from marketing people.
Not given up no. But the devs have promised they will be looked at in LU44 so people are shutting up and waiting and seeing tbh. There shouldnt be 1 tank to tank them all your right, it should come down to the skill of the players.
Just in case devs and developers are reading this thread Fingers crossed for Divine Aura being fixed, same recast as guards tower shield thing and similar effectivness Fingers crossed for Divine Favour being fixed, somthing like 3 min recast, lasts for 30 seconds, increase shield block by 20% (similar skill to guards short term parry increase) Fingers crossed for all fabled and mythical tank weaps having the same +5 shield block on them as the lvl 67 lucanic gladius had. Fingers crossed for a change to Paladin Fabled and mythical having marrs favour effect ca's as well as spells and ignore damage caps (shorten time if u have to) Finger crossed for the mythical pally +100ca damage changed to +double attack Fingers crossed for the mythical pally pet being more usefull than it is right now, doing more dps and healing more would be good, blocking aoe's for 30 secs would also, both would be bloody awsome and mythical u might say Fingers crossed for the mythical pally 10% less melle damage and 10% all damage heal not being nerfed in any way Lots of fingers there hehe afraid im dreaming with some of the above "ideas" which is what they are tbh, there is a huge thread full of ideas already, people stopped posting in it once devs said in an interview that they were looking at all the epics.
Well Moto, being fairly informed forum trolls most of us have read a post stating that development is looking into ALL of the epics and won't release any epic changes until they are ready to release changes for all of them that they are going to change. Ever since that post went out we've stopped complaining bitterly about the epic because, ya know, we thought maybe our bitter commentary had been herd and something was being done. I'm thinking if our epic doesn't get changed we start asking for the producer of the game to step down. Even if its a bad redesign, any redesign shows they are at least aware of our disatisfaction. I actually think its poor design to have an epic weapon funnel an entire class through 1 or 2 AA lines. AA lines are suppose to be choices, with an epic that supports one line (no matter how awesome) it means your loosing your flexability. Some things I'd like to see: change +spell damage and +combat art damage to just +skill damage. I'd actually like to see that done across the board for everybody. This split system hurts us, and anyone else that has both combat arts and spells. It also confuses the melee priests. Combat Arts and spells are effectively the same thing when your considering class design, there isn't a good reason for the bonuses to be seperate. Something that I haven't proposed before but seems appropriate: have our epic give us the ability to transfer upto 100% agro. Right now, hate transfer is capped at 50%. So if we lay down amends for 41% and a swashie uses her 17% hate transfer...we actually only get 9% from the swash. If agro transfer is suppose to be such a key element of our class...why are we limited to 9% benifit from other classes when all other tanks can gain 50% from other classes? Giving us the ability to cap at 100% means we get the full benifit of our class and the benifits that other tanks receive. Actually, this shouldn't be on the epic either. It should be just a class ability. Paladins have an extreme lack of DPS compaired to other tanks. Saying our self healing and agro transfer makes up for this is naive. Raid tanks in general DPS around 2k. We are DPS at about 1k or less. I don't think the self heals make up that much of a difference. Also due to the long cast times, our attempts at healing only serve to lower our DPS. One possible solution would be to turn healing/spells that paladins have into CAs. This would get rid of most of the interrupts, lower casting times, and effectively raise our reliability as tanks. Another possibility would be to count our CAs as spells. This would allow our CAs to benifit from the huge amount of spell crit that we are afforded to raise our DPS. The last possibility I'll bring up would be to give our healing spells a damage/agro component. If our heals also did damage to mobs engaged with us (either single target and straight damage, or 1/4th damage to all engaged mobs) this would give us the added bonus needed to make up for our loss of DPS compaired to other tanks. While we still wouldn't match other raid tanks the gap would be considerably narrowed due to the added benifit of lowering healer agro without sacrificing DPS/agro for non-healers to do so. If this was seen as too much of a soloing benifit, then consider adding an extra 25% on to all non-self healing done to the paladin, and give that agro generated to the paladin. While this would not be a long term benifit for raiding, it would make a paladin a natural choice for raid encounters where other tanks can't be kept up.
Meirril wrote: few things how are you only doing 1k dps, i know myself pulls 2k quite consistantly with just auto attack.... Amends is the strongest ability in game, caps at 50% are fine. and heals do add to aggro, if i remember correctly 1 heal point = 1 aggro point.
Moto, I have my "red badge of courage" my record of posts speaks for itself. However you do have one thing right, and that is its important to keep the issue live and so the thread on it should stay active. If only to ask when some official indication (apart from the ad hoc response to a webcast question) of change is to be made on SOE forums. Large organisations have massive inertia and often require persistant pressure to move in any direction. Energy is required to fight entropy!
Virutis@Kithicor wrote: Just curious...how do you get 2k dps on a raid as a Paladin? Don't get me wrong, I believe you in achieving this, just how? I can hardly hold 1k zone-wide on raids due to those constant tanking thing, even as an OT. PM me plz, I really would like to know, how you do this
Virutis@Kithicor wrote: I'm actually not even hitting 1k DPS. Then again, I'm not a raid tank. When I quoted 1k, it was quoted from a large number of different posters who said they were doing about that much. Yes, heals count 1 for 1 on agro. Is that enough to off set the loss in DPS when we try to cast a heal and get interrupted twice and it finally completes? That is about 6 seconds with no melee dps. Even worse, what if we get interrupted three times? That's 3 seconds with no agro generation or benifit of any kind. So, your perfectly ok with a guardian getting upto 41% advantage in agro generation over paladins? After all, they don't have any such ability in their arsenel of argo management tools. Sure they have a buff that makes someone generate less hate. They also have a whole arsanel of other agro management tools that arn't capped to make up for their lack of an agro transfer. Other classes get their own agro transfers that can give the guardian the 50% agro transfer they lack. In those cases, our advantage is gone and the only benifit we get out of it is one person in the MT or OT group can be replaced with someone that doesn't have agro transfer. I'm still of the opinion that our own agro transfer shouldn't count against our cap. It lowers our potential.
I ran a PR raid yesterday and it ended up being 50% pickup with no dirge or cohercer to increase agro. So we decided to go with me MTing instead of the usual guard as the guard was worried that he would not be able to hold agro in a raid enviroment where as a Paladin with amends would be able to. It tanked fine with no agro issues with amends on a swashie. All im saying here is that i dont think Paladins have agro issues and to push that point wouldnt be a good idea when there are other issues that could do withlooking at first. If your a group tank then surely amends is the best agro tool in game and if somone is pulling agro off you then they need to calm it a bit in the first openings of fights. That said i do see your point regarding the heals and ward, if our heals and ward are meant to be instead of other tools for staying alive then they should be less interuptable and more reliable when your in a MT situation as you cant compare somthing like a quick cast tower spell that a guard has to heal that is 1 or 2 seconds to cast. Regards Kahling
Meirril wrote: explain how guardians are getting an advantage over us? most main tank groups consist of 1 dirge, 3 healer, a guardian and a assassin or swashbuckler which in that case the guard is only having a 18% aggro transfer put on them. AMENDS is the strongest ability in the game for aggro control hands down.
Sorry guys, if you cant crack 1k dps something is really wrong and you should reconsider offering ideas for feedback. You Should be striving for 3k, that is close to our ceiling @ the moment, doing > 1k is really really bad guys
Madbiker wrote: That's what I am asking. How can you reach 2k or even 3k zone-wide DPS with full tanking gear and almost constant tanking? Switching to off stance? Using only some special CA's / Spells? When I reach 2k on an raid encounter, I wasnt tanking at all, not even offtanking, I was standing there with a 2H weapons and making just damage. But I havent reached that amount of damage with shield/sword in defense and constant tanking. So how are you doing it? Just keeping the laggy non-english servers in mind, wich prevent spell or CA combos.
Virutis@Kithicor wrote: Was a long time ago now, but if memory serves me correctly some developer responded to questions about hate generation by saying that 1 pt damage = 1 pt hate, but that 1 pt heal = .5 pt hate. And questions about how much hate was generated by buffs and mezzing, etc were left unanswered. Don't know if I'll be able to find that thread now (or if they've changed the mechanics since then). Anyone else recall that whole hate generation exchange? Was before Amends even existed I think, because we were having real issues holding aggro before they gave us Amends.
Hmm its was at at a time when healers were screaming about getting agro from the healing required for major mobs, I recall they dropped it to 0.5 agro for 1hp heal. I had presumed that to still be the case until people mentioned 1 to 1 being the situation now. My best Raid DPS was using a 2H (Twins Mallet) and AE against lots of adds etc and I hit 3.3k on the parse. Normally its about 1.5-1.8k using Soulfire and Queynos Guard, but I am not getting MT group buffs. The buffs you get from your group make a lot of difference. Look at your AA selection, I take Trample and Haste AA, plus Mellee crit and Spell crit AA for DPS, Wrath, Cure and Block final AA's also. Gear helps a huge amount, stack up on plus DPS/Haste/Crit gear, get high strength also. I know its all a balance ie dont start wearing leather for a + crit. Anything that procs and can trigger other procs is gold. I have a mix of DPS and Avoidance adornments. Look at collection and other quests that can give you upgrades as well as instances. Unless you are MT getting raid dropped gear will be very slow unelss you are insanely lucky. Most of my stuff isnt off raid mobs and I am not anywhere near where I want to be on vital stats either. Look at your hotkey arrangements and group them more efficiently, I have a "let there be light" hot bar of my AE's and I just string them when the hordes come over the walls
