Yet another question about Warlocks vs Wizard output

Let me first start out by saying I do not feel that Warlocks should be nerfed!!!!!!

Okay, with that out of the way I would like to say that I chose a wizard because when you read about the wizard before the game came out and in all the press stuff the wizard was suppose to be the supreme damage character. Now I'm a level 49 wizard and I've been playing since the day the game came out. Yesterday I grouped with a warlock and he was level 42. He was outdamaging me like I could not believe. I'm talking he was doing 2000 points of damage 1700 points of damage etc the most I can do is 960 with adept III of Ball of Flames. Warlock is doing more damage than I am 7 levels below me.

This is a problem that needs to be fixed. Again I dont feel that the warlocks need to be nerfed!! But when a warlock does over double the damage that I can do something is wrong. Yes I know we have depart but come on.....that is suppose to make up for double the damage. Now I dont have Ice comet yet, I get that in one level. But I dont think it does 2000 points of damage.

I know you warlocks are all saying...you could have chosen to be a warlock. Yes, this is true I could have. But I chose the wizard based on the fact the SOE said it was suppose to do the most damage. Also I didnt find out until my Character was over level 35 that warlocks were kicking out butts in damage.

I'm not sure why warlocks are all up in arms about this anyway. I dont think most of the Wizarding community is asking that you guys get nerfed we are asking that our numbers be brought up at least a little. We dont even have to do as much damage as you in one spell but right now we are at half the damage....there is something wrong there!!!!! If you are doing 1700 with one spell my spells should at least be comparable.

I love having warlocks in the group. They are great DPS. But Wizards should at least be comparable DPS!!! In the manual the only difference was suppose to be Wizard - Fire and Ice......Warlock - Disease and Poison. Small other little differences but it was not suppose to be Wizard - half the damage....Warlock - Double the Damage. Believe me if that had been the case I would have chosen the warlock.

There is no way a level 42 Warlock should be outdamaging a level 49 wizard period.

We needed another thread about this?
The reason why Warlocks are up in arms may be because of what Moorgard was quoted to have said. It was something to the effect of, If changes are needed to be made to either of our classes, other classes may and mostly like will be changed to correspond with those changes. Mind you that is not a quote. I'll get the link in a sec after I finish typing this.
If everyone is asking for Wizard damage to be changed, the most obvious action the DEVs would take would be to re-evaluate Warlock damage and bring them into line with Wizards. In essence they'd be nerfing the Warlocks. And we know all too well that SOE NEVER takes the road that we'd expect, so instead of our damage increase, I'm certain we'd instead see someone else's damage nerf.
We two classes are the highest damaging classes in the entire game. Wizard has a resistance flaw to be worked out with EPIC mobs, but barring that issue, there isnt anything else besides random small spell fixes. I have to ask again... why is it that we need to equal or outdamage the Warlocks? Is it some ingrained thought that we are the same class? Because we're not. Just because we had the same beginnings does no mean that we should have similar ends.
If you have such issues with wanting to be just like a Warlock, why not roll one up and not play your Wizard anymore. All these comparisons are so rediculous.

Stepha, people like SalBluee can bring up an inane list of 7 buff spells that justify our damage being MUCH lower, even with adept I as our MINIMUM upgrade. People like them prefer to live as gimped. Anway, the Second Crusade of Damage Points Per Second needs volunteers to swell it's already massive army.

1/2 to 1/3 damage decrease? Golly, it's almost like you haven't recieved all the damage spells you're going to get.

Since you just hit 23, perhaps you should listen to all the 50s who say "it's not really a problem".

the answer is simple. Restore our pulse line to how it was like 6-8 months ago after they upgraded it but before they did that huge nerf to it.

lol, I am starting to believe that SalBluee is really a Warlock pretending to be a Wizard. lol

I'm no Warlock, I just recognize where the problems are, and instead of posting whine after whine about it, I actually play my class and play it well. I have played MANY online games similar to this, and saw the same things everyone keeps bringing up... the dissimilarities between two classes that had the same root upbringing. The Development team eventually learns of it, and instead of fixing, they wind up with a big nerf bat and smack someone else in the face.
I want to know why it is that so many people think that Wizards and Warlocks have to do the SAME damage. I'm not talking about damage type... I'm talking about raw damage. Is there some unwritten law that says, "Wizards and Warlocks should be exactly the same but for damage type." because if there is, I missed it. Someone has to be top on damage, and right now, that is Warlock. There's no threat here... its just a class that has a bit more damage. If you feel like making a case for Wizards, make the case against EPIC elemental resists, or request the fix to Protoflame, or better yet, our huge power output per spell.
Most of the anger coming from all of us Wizards is derived directly from the non-involvement of the DEV team and/or Moorgard. We never get any updates, and if in the rare occasion that we do, the responses are so cryptic that everyone has to have a government job in cryptography to decipher. I personally want answers to what the development team is doing before I complain more. With the spell changes looming on the horizon, changes are going to be grandfathered in for all spellcasters. More than likely, if I had to guess, some of the issues contained in all these threads is being addressed. I'd hope that at this point they've seen the animosity brewing all over these forums in protest to what some people think the class should be, and how to improve it.
Stepha, people like SalBluee can bring up an inane list of 7 buff spells that justify our damage being MUCH lower, even with adept I as our MINIMUM upgrade. People like them prefer to live as gimped. Anway, the Second Crusade of Damage Points Per Second needs volunteers to swell it's already massive army.
Now... Tar-Palantir... where in my posts have I brought up 7 buff spells and evac as a justification to lower our damage output? I think you're putting words in my mouth, and if you feel the need to post in response to me, i'd suggest you actually read what I say instead of reitterating the same blathering that you post in every other Wizard vs Warlock thread. Here.. let me quote up the post that you were responding to:
The reason why Warlocks are up in arms may be because of what Moorgard was quoted to have said. It was something to the effect of, If changes are needed to be made to either of our classes, other classes may and mostly like will be changed to correspond with those changes. Mind you that is not a quote. I'll get the link in a sec after I finish typing this.
If everyone is asking for Wizard damage to be changed, the most obvious action the DEVs would take would be to re-evaluate Warlock damage and bring them into line with Wizards. In essence they'd be nerfing the Warlocks. And we know all too well that SOE NEVER takes the road that we'd expect, so instead of our damage increase, I'm certain we'd instead see someone else's damage nerf.
We two classes are the highest damaging classes in the entire game. Wizard has a resistance flaw to be worked out with EPIC mobs, but barring that issue, there isnt anything else besides random small spell fixes. I have to ask again... why is it that we need to equal or outdamage the Warlocks? Is it some ingrained thought that we are the same class? Because we're not. Just because we had the same beginnings does no mean that we should have similar ends.
Allright.. having said that.. and looking at that signature or whatever it is of yours:

As a wizard, I would like to do the same damage as a warlock. 7 miscellaneous spells including evac does not justify a 1/3-1/2 decrease in DPS. SoE: You have permission to take away my buffs and evac so i can do DPS to rival my warlock counterpart.

Where, and how are we doing 1/3-1/2 less damage than a Warlock, and please tie that in to a relationship with our buff lines. And dont tell me that that is what happens in raids, because we already know the issue there, and that is Elemental Resistance.

I'd also have to ask if you're a lvl 50 Wizard. Do you have your full spell lineup? Do you have all your nukes, debuff/DOTs, and most buffs upgraded to at least Adept III? And how are you comparing yourself to a Warlock. Is this a direct comparison from someone you know, or are you just trying to repost information that you've seen others post before?

I work directly with other Warlocks both in my guild and out. Barring EPIC encounters where our nuking ability is effectively cut in half, there is a SMALL DPS difference between myself and them, and that was parsed with Combatstats on lvl 50 Defenders of Thyr outside of Solusek's Eye in Lavastorm. This is with using 2 debuffs (Adept III), and my normal nuke sequence of Immolation (Adept III), Ball of Flames (Adept III), Westfend's Ice Spear (Adept II Trainer), Ice Comet (Adept III), Ball of Flames (Adept III). Then we reroot, and nuke the giant down the remaining part of his health. Right here, where I am waiting for Ice Comet and Immolation to cue back up is where we start to get surpassed. Even after the battle, I am within 7-25 total DPS of the Warlock.

As I am at work right now, I will access my log file at home, and repost these Combatstats parses here for you viewing pleasure.

So... again... the biggest question and complaint that I always see come up is, "Why is the Warlock the top damage dealer, and now Wizard?" The answer is because SOMEONE has to be the top damage dealer. I'm sorry, but right now that is Warlocks. If you remember back to before the original Wizard/Warlock spell changes, Wizards were the top dog, and Warlocks were the ones that felt... lacking. We were outputting more damage altogether. After the spell upgrade went in, our roles switched, and now we find ourselves as the second man on the totem pole. Is the problem therein that we are now second place when originally we were first? Or is there something else?

Instead of being unhappy with being a Wizard, you might start thinking about what you CAN do. You CAN do massive damage. You CAN crowd control to a good extent. You CAN supplement power to save a raid group. We're not as bad off as you all think.

People like them prefer to live as gimped.

And before saying something as moronic as this above statement in red... think. No one likes to live gimped, and that includes me. If we were to get another damage increase, I'd be the first in line to accept those changes. I'm a power freak in the end, and if I can output more damage than any other, so be it. But on the other hand, if we are kept the same, but given spell fixes for power consumption and Protoflame, and maybe given a bit more of an ease off on Elemental Resistance, I'd be happy as well.

And so... because I'm not jumping at the bit to be top damage dog out there, I'll become one of the hated Wizards here who would prefer to "live as gimped". I'm not trying to prevent change, but open your eyes to the reality that we are not that bad off. Changes from SOE are never good for everyone, and if you only think about yourself in terms of class and keep asking for nerfs and changes, all that is going to happen is bad changes for others. They'll call it "Spell balance", but in actuallity it will be a nerf.

Salbluee: well said.

Honestly, I'm not concerned about Wiz/Warlock damage right now. What I am concerned with is the upcoming spell changes. They've stated that spells will not scale with level, but only with quality (app/adpt/master). Considering how often we get a GOOD damage spell, I'm worried we'll be in real trouble. Heck, I still use Ice Spike as a filler because it does such good damage for the amount of power it uses. I have a feeling that it won't be viable after the combat changes. Anyone else have similar concerns?

Yep. Particularly with lower lvl spells that upper lvl people like me still use. Frozen Manacles for instance. This is a great root because of its casting time and durability of root, but i've also had the spell for a LONG time. I can see this as being one spell that is phased off of my spellbar and into oblivion.
And what of other spells like Ball of Fire and Westfend's Ice Spear. These are two great nukes that we get at a low lvl. They are very grey at lvl 50, especially Ball of Fire.
Yeah... i'm concerned about the spell change, but I think I want to see what it holds before I start to panic.

Good posts as usual SalBluee, what has me laughing on all of these Wiz/War threads is how some Wizards claim to do 1/2-1/3 of Warlock damage. THIS IS [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]ING FUNNY...i have yet to be in any group with a Wizards that does 1/2-1/3 of my damage. We are always the top two in DPS and if they dont outdamage me they are no more than 50dps behind me (and this usually happend because I may have thrown out the nuke that killed the mob).
I understand people want their class fixed, heck I want your classes fixed too. But throwing out false numbers won't make it happen any quicker.

You fool, I never said we do 1/2 to 1/3. My sig says we do 1/2 to 1/3 less. If that is too complicated, let me put it simpler, say a warlock casts over 4 seconds a 400 point nuke, 400 raw dmg divided by 4 seconds is 100 DPS. if we do 1/2 to 1/3 less, we doo 50-66 DPS.
To see this, all someone has to do is grp with a warlock and go back in their damage logs.
If Sony brings equilibrium to wizards and warlocks by nerfing, than so be it, it's their legendary modus opporandi.

"You fool, I never said we do 1/2 to 1/3. My sig says we do 1/2 to 1/3 less. If that is too complicated, let me put it simpler, say a warlock casts over 4 seconds a 400 point nuke, 400 raw dmg divided by 4 seconds is 100 DPS. if we do 1/2 to 1/3 less, we doo 50-66 DPS."
And?
If your sig says that, then it means you say it. It's posted in every one of your responses and only serves to remind how misinformed your information is.
Oh... and in a parse that short, you might consider that Wizards actually OWN Warlocks in DPS. Reasoning? We have more off the T damage with Ice Comet.

You fool, I never said we do 1/2 to 1/3. My sig says we do 1/2 to 1/3 less.
LMFAO, you idiot 1/2-1/3 of my damage = 1/2-1/3 less than my damage.
Before you try to prove someone wrong learn what YOU are actually TRYING to say first. And I said before, I have yet to be in a group witha Wizard that does that little damage...if you do then you aren't playing you class to its fullest potential.

In groups the dps is roughly equal, depending on the number of mobs you fight.
In raids however its true, but if you're only lvl40 you wouldnt have a clue about that. The group dps is fine, but the raid dps of wizards is a huge problem.

Let's not assume I don't join in on raids...Fact is I have clue about raids since I go on them for fun with friends so I know about wizards low raid dps, but overall dps shouldn't be a problem for wizards. The problem is the resists which need to be fixed...fix resists then raid dps is fixed during raid encounters.

Correct, but until those arent fixed raiding wizards have crap dps which is a big problem.

If you knew anything about the game, DPS and resists are symbient in raids. The fixing of resists should fix most rading DPS.

And BTW, if you think i dont raid enough, I spent all night friday raiding. Sorry I am not as l33t as you by not raiding form noon till night.

Not to butt in to your Wizardly discussion here but I think the reason most of us Warlocks try to justify our increased DPS is b/c we were a broken class for a long time.
I think most people forget how from launch in early November until Update 3 in the end of Feb, we were a gimped class....for 3 months....and we are still trying to take it all in...I know I still am amazed by my damage.
However, as I posted in Warlock forums, against a poison immune mob, I feel so 1-dimensional it's not even funny. If not for Ice Flame I'd do less damage than before level 23...
But, anyhow, I'd like to say this whole discussion is almost a moot point now. The Combat rebalance should happen 'relatively' soon and then we will all have something else to bicker about :smileymad:

Well, the first time that I am motivated to reply to a post, and its not even on my own classes board.
Tar_Palantir ... I dont really need to say this but you are an idiot, enough said on that because your own words back me up on this. "I never said that we do 1/2 - 1/3 the DPS, my Sig says.." Errr duhhh hello stupid, your list of false claims is a mile long ... and good for you on the Friday raid, everyone was on the edge of thier seat wondering if you "raided" or not you dork.
Salbluee ... i have read alot of post / replies to posts that you have narrated, you (I believe) are pretty much right on the money.
anyway since this is a dead horse, already made into glue... I still have faith in the Devs and fixes will come for all classes (slowly, like in EQ1), some good, some bad, but making false claims does not help matters.
Back to the Warlock boards where I belong... keep the faith and play what you like, you never know when the shoe is going to be on the other foot.
Vishya 44 Warlock .. Steamfont