*** Spells and Combat Arts *** - The stifle or stun component of spells and combat arts will no longer affect epic encounters. Secondary effects (such as damage) will still land on epic targets, but the stun/stifle effect will not. ********************************************* Does this really say what it looks like it says? So not stifles/stuns will work on epic mobs now? ie none? Dear lord.. if that's true.. thats ... insane.
Yea, it sucks [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]. Could have been our class defining trait, and now we're nothing more than a blink tank (a good one at least) with horrid group utility.
This seems like a really poorly thought out change. It is not as though the MoB has been stunned/stifled all the time on post-patch raids. If that's a problem, reduce the the duration/chance to hit of stuns and stifles. But this really hammers classes (like us) where the ability to stun or stifle a MoB is a large portion of our utility.
I really don't get this. Considering that Epics have such a high rate of resist to begin with, giving them auto-immunity seems just unreasonable. Say hello to a lot of dead raiders.
I agree. The more appropriate change would have been to perhaps increase the chance of epic mobs resisting the stun/stifle - not to be outright immune to them all. A well placed stun or stifle could mean the difference between a wipe and a victory. Against epic mobs, I'm now pretty much relegated to miscellaneous dps and the occasional FD raid wipe saver. *salute* Thanks SOE.
I'm 99.9% sure this is because with the right combination of classes pre LU13 you could stifle an epic entirely. That combined with draining its power = no challenge. It *does* suck for us though, but I can understand the reasoning behind it. There are so many classes that have stun/stifles/silences/interrupts that if you could successfully chain the majority of them you'd pretty much be fighting a mob that couldn't fight back.
I understand how that could happen, Gaige. That said, I certainly haven't heard a lot of folks complaining about how EASY raids have become since LU13. Still seems like this is using a chainsaw to cut butter. It would be possible to reduce the effect of stifles/stuns on epics (e.g. by reducing duration or chance to land) without cutting them completely. Once you cut them completely, you take away utility/diversity and push the game more in the direction of pure DPS and healing power, which is boring. Big mistake IMHO.
guess tactics are no good anymore , bring dps and healers ...tons of hp on raid mobs soon and we got EQ raids again , yay
Fighter class "stuns" were the only ones that landed on Epics Pre LU13 and they were VERY short duration. Only with almost perfect timing could you keep a mob perma-"stunned." The bug was "Withering Silence" in which a Coercer could use their level 30 Spell and keep any mob perma-stifled only leaving it with melee/auto-attack and inate abilities like Wrath of Fury. Withering Silence has since been fixed, but Coercers could still keep a mob stifled 90% of a fight (with the right combination of skills casted), so add another one and ...well you get the idea. But, simply make stifle skills not stack or allow a mob to only be stifled once every ___ seconds. I'm sure another way of solving this then completly going and doing this : /. IMHO, Mobs should still be able to be stunned, but just keep the resist rate low this will be sure that mobs can't stay perma-stunned unless you have an highly unlikely and unusual ammount of fighters in a raid. This will be really rough, perhaps its still subject to some change.
I think I agree with this change - with the huge amount of stun CAs and spells out there, it's not that hard to set up an epic mob to be permastunned. Set up a rotation, where each group is told to use all of their stuns for the next 8 seconds, then cycle to the next group. Timing everyone's stuns across a raid is hard. But many classes have enough stuns that they can chain stun for 8 seconds or so, then it's on to the next group who does the same. Done right, you might as well be back on the isle.
Yeah now people will not care to have certain classes on raids instead they will load up on Healers & Nukers. Real fun huh? I dont like this change they could of made the epics have other ways to negate some of the stuns/stifles. This is ignorant. One good thing tho with group FD us monks might still have somthing useful to offer. Bru~ Tranquil One Message Edited by Lebru1 on 10-08-2005 09:59 AM
As much as it sucks, we are NOT useless on raids. We have a lot more raid utility than just stuns now. Stuns were nice, but, now, with the way raids seem to play out, there needs to be a lot of crowd control. Who better than a monk? 12 seconds of Tsunami and our Ward, we can pull any raid mob while people get it debuffed. We can also "Rescue" people if needed, and tank extremely well when we need to. At first I hated the fact that I was going to be a tank, but after raiding for the last two weeks, I love it.
Funny if it was "Easy" to perma-stun an epic mob, why wasn't EVERYONE doing it? This is a case of ridiculous over-reaction to a perceived problem. If Coercer's Stifle was the problem, fix it. If there were guild's perma-stunning mobs, make the duration of the stuns on epics so short as to make it impossible with a 24 man raid to perma-stun. Don't destroy our stun ability completely.
All hope is not lost, And like Reposado has said you will find out that you love raiding as a monk and the utility of a monk isn't just DPS on raids now that stuns have been Nerfed. Besides, I still believe that this is subject to some change when they view some more raiding scenes happening and notice that things might just be 'too difficult'. Not for certain yet, but from the way things seem some stuff really does need some work. We'll see
If they made the stuns short enough that a raid couldn't perma stun (or even stun half the time) then the stuns will be so weak they will effectively be destroyed. I'd rather this epic-only solution than an across-the-board nerf. And, um, I don't think you should necessarily assume that all of the tactics used by raiding guilds are actively discussed on the forums.
Me personally, I would rather just see a 10% ish chance for your CA's with stuns attached to them to work. If the 10% chance doesn't go through and the mob doesn't get stunned, no big deal, still a bit of damg done from your CA. Rather than a full on not allowed to be used on Epics nerf.
Bonesbro, If you read my post I said reduce the stun time on EPICS, not all mobs, at the very least it will leave us with the interrupt portion of the stun.
