Wizard dmg at lvl 32 significantly lower than Warlock dmg, Numbers show.

Greetings,

Let me start by saying I'm very happy for both Warlocks and Wizards with the new changes, and I look forward to get great spells like Ball of Flames and Immolation as I level up.

But the reason for this post is, as the subject line reads, that our dmg at lvl 32 is subpar to Warlock's, and by a big margin. Here are the numbers:

Main nukes:

Wizard(lvl 32)

Lvl 23 nuke-Ball of Fire(Adept I) 392-588, Cast time: 3 sec, Recast time: 12 sec.



Warlock(lvl 31)

Lvl 23 nuke-Dark Distortion(Adept III) 555-833, Cast time: 2 sec, Recast time: 9 sec, AND returns a portion of that dmg as Power replenishment to the Warlock.

And yes, I realize that Adept III makes a big difference But it should not be that extreme, as said in the patch notes, the Warlock lvl 23 nuke Dark Distortion now deals 50% more damage. The Wizard lvl 23 nuke was left untouched, when it dealt about the same as the Warlock nuke pre-patch, and has a longer cast and recast time.



Well, after I found out about this I figured maybe the other spells make up for this, here are the numbers, you be the judge:


Main Wizard(lvl 32) spells:

Lvl 21 nuke-Breath of the Tyrant( Adept I) 164-274 dmg, Cast Time: 2 sec, Recast time: 4 sec

Lvl 27.6 nuke-Plasmatic Pulse(APP IV) 134-164 dmg, has a chance to cast a dot for 19-29 dmg every 4 sec.

Lvl 27 Stun-Blazing Intimidation(APP IV) 3.6 sec Stun + 356 dmg, Cast time: 4 sec, Recast time: 45 Sec

Lvl 29 DoT/Elem Debuff-Icy Coil(APP IV) 161-197 Initial Dmg + 42-51 dmg every 4 sec for 24 Sec

And yes, Freeze got upgraded, but it's an old Sorcerer Grey spell, Warlocks also get it, and cannot affect mobs lvl 36 and higher. Hits for 245-300 on lowbie mobs, recast time of 30 Sec.


Main Warlock(lvl 31) spells:

Lvl 30 nuke-Noxious Bolt(APP IV) - 369-500 dmg Cast time: 2 sec, Recast time: 6.5 sec

Lvl 24 nuke-Suffocating Breath(Adept I)-157-261 dmg, Cast time: 2 sec, recast time: 4 sec.

Lvl 27.6 Dot/Mitigation Debuff- Steal Breath(Adept I)- 42-51 dmg every 4 sec for 24 sec.


So, as you can see, ignoring the lvl 23 Wizzy/Warlock nukes, both classes are more or less evenly matched. Warlock gets a much stronger secondary nuke (Noxius Bolt) whereas their DoT does 170ish less dmg than ours. (Suffocating Breath and Breath of the Tyrant are pretty much equivalent) And Blazing Intimidation is ok...but it has a recast timer of 45 sec...so that's once per fight usually, and Noxius Bolt, with a recast timer of 6.5 sec can be cast over and over, and hitting harder.

So for the sake of argument let's say that ignoring the lvl 23 Main nukes, both subclasses are evenly matched(although I'd say Warlock gets the slight Upper Hand).

Then why is it that their Main nuke hits 50% harder than ours, has a cast time of 2 sec vs. our 3 sec, and can be recast after 9 sec, vs our 12 sec. And on top of all this, they get power back from it...Am I the only one who thinks this is quite unfair?

Mind you, I'm not asking for a nerf, I salute our Warlock cousins and congratulate them on a well-deserved damage upgrade. But shouldn't Wizards be doing equivalent dmg at nearby levels? Aren't both Sorcerers, the Main Dmg dealers? I was under the Impression that Wiz/Warlock dealt simply different kinds of damage, and neither was supposed to substantially outdamage the other at relatively close levels.

We need our damage brought up to par in our low 30s, fixing our Main nuke would do it, give us the 50% increase along with similar cast/recast timers and that will do it.

And yes, many will say Adept III outdamages Adept I, but the difference is not that noticeable, as a matter of fact, another Warlock(lvl 30) with an Adept I version of his lvl 23 Nuke Dark Distortion has a dmg of 486 - 729, and in 2 levels that dmg will definitely jump, by the time he gets to 32.

I'm only level 32, so I have no idea if Wizards get any redeeming changes, maybe once Ball of Flame or Immolation show up, we are brought up to par, but they also get upgrades in those levels. So my question to you higher lvl Wizzies is: Are you also being significantly outdamaged by Warlocks of your level? Please look at facts and numbers, not general impressions

Right now most people don't know that at my lvl Warlocks outdamage me by a vast amount, and I hope it stays that way. If word gets out I'll have a lot of trouble finding groups

I'm sure adept3 ball of fire doesnt do 555-833 damage. They really need to fix this - set bof to the same cast/recast/cost as dark distortion, and add a 50% damage buff to it.

Since its possible that Warlocks do more now. I say, let them bask in the sunshine and enjoy it.





c-ya

Hi 41 Warlock here, if those numbers are right it would seem warlocks may get the upper hand at 32, though it appears after the next teir of nukes (37) they are fairly close, and if i understand the patch notes right at 50 wizards will surpass warlock.
Your lvl 50 nuke gets a huge boost while our lvl 50 nuke gets turned into an AE, max of 5 targets and -50% dmg .. ehh .. wth?
Message Edited by MorbiusAu on 02-17-2005 11:11 AM

thats what I was thinking once we get ball of flames it would even out.
dont look a gift horse in the mouth, be happy our warlock brethren are now doing equal (who cares if slightly higher) dps.

Keep in mind, wizards are not meant to do the highest DPS at every single level, and there are many factors to consider.

I have no issues with warlocks or other classes having good DPS at certain levels then me.

I have noticed there are times where certain classes are better than others. After a certain point, though, they all equal out.
But wait.... Warlocks get illusions..... Wizards get pets..... which is better?

dont warlock DOTs surpass wizard also though?

No, wizzies have more and better dot's. We get a few spells with additional effects. Its pretty even, some levels oneor the other is ahead by a spell. I think its odd that my freeze spell does the most damage and my frozen bolt does second most at 22. Seems blaze and poison bolt didn't get upgraded, which is odd. They used to be the main nuke spells and are now down to thrid best, though freeze is usualy only once or twice per combat.

At 50, wizards seem to still do more dps. Really close though. No need to fear the evil warlocks, if they do 2 more dps then you, good for you. Play nice.

Yes, my gf plays a warlock.

Adept III for both,
She is level 25 and highest hit with Dark Dist is 657
I am level 30 and highest hit with BoFi is 614 (I think)

but I dont care, Im just happy SOE gave us a DPS increase
And grats to Warlocks too

Does anyone know whether Westfend and BoFL are on different timers now?
Message Edited by Graffix_75 on 02-18-2005 04:12 AM

1) adept1 and adept3 aren't really comparable
2) perhaps the mobs you tested on had low noxious and high elemental resists
3) if will all even out in a few levels, don't fret.

35 Warlock here, i can tell ya definitly that at your level an adept1 version of Dark Distortion would hit like your 23 DD does. It has HUGE increase between those 2 spell levels.

But to the lvl50. It now depends on the Situation. Against group of mobs (3 to 5 mobs) Warlock will have the overhand with Devastation AoE hitting for 5x500 per mob (not sure if the DoT is only for main mob or all 5), on single targets Wizards will definitly have it.

What kinda dps is a lvl 32 warlock getting now?

I just hit 32 WIZ last night and I parsed about 20 solo fights. My dps was over 160 each round and I even hit 200 once.

This was using this combo....


Icy Coil(ad1), Special Version of freeze(ad2), Blazing intimidation(ap4), Ball of fire(ad3), Breath of the Tyrant(Ad1).

White mobs were dying to this combo and I ussually did not even get touched maxing the two stuns and then the Bof to finish off.

It's not worth using root when you have two nice stuns that actually do very nice damage now.

BlazTinker, how much does your BoF or Westfend's ice spear cost? I seem to remember checking (a long time ago) the difference between BoF and DD for Wizard vs Warlock in the 20's, and if i recall correctly, BoF cost a lot less power than DD. When you say "And on top of all this, they get power back from it..." (in reference to Dark Distortion) I must ask if you know the power cost. At level 29, Dark Distortion Adept 1 cost me 106 power to cast, but 37 is returned upon a successful hit - so essentially it cost 69 power. Damage is usually 450-620 or so, on level 32-34 NPC's in The Enchanted Lands. Not trying to flame you or anything here, but if you wouldn't mind posting the power cost for BoF for around 27-32 or so, this should help clear things up.

On a side note, my Suffocating Breath [(Adept 1) equivalent of Wizard's Breath of the Tyrant] is now less effective than Ice Spike (Apprentice 3). Ice Spike does around 30-40 more damage for 20 less power, and less recharge time. 160-230 damage for 62 power with SB, or 170-270ish with Ice Spike for 40 something power.

I'm pleased with the changes this patch, but I do think they need a little revision, i think BotT and SB should be stronger than Ice Spike. Even Blaze should be stronger than ice spike since it has a bit of a recast to it whereas Ice spike doesnt have as much.

(EDIT: Added last paragraph)
Message Edited by NG23985_01 on 02-18-2005 07:08 AM

Yeah, unless it's a mistake, both the Warlock level 50 spells have become AE. Warlocks seem to have the edge from 30-40, but at 50 Wizards do more damage.

Hopefully they will continue to look at the spells, there are a few that still need to be fixed and perhaps some of these changes where mistakes.

Ya just got a damage inc of 300% on some abilities. Leave it to an eq2 player to then after getting this huge inc to go on a forum and cry how they arent getting enough damage..classic. /ignore!

So you're ok with being grocely outdamaged by a class with the same exact role as you? A small amount would be ok, but their Main nuke hits 50% harder than ours, casts 36% faster and gives them some mana back as well. /boggle

Ball of Flame's total cast time was reduced by half, that's nice indeed. But the Warlock equivalent lvl 37 spell: Nil Distortion had its dmg increased to 240%. So I don't think that once Ball of Flames shows up at lvl 37 "it would even out."

1)-That's correct, and at the end of my original post I wrote the data for a lvl 30 Warlock with an Adept I version of the spell Dark Distortion showing a huge damage difference. 2)-I didn't test this on any mobs, now you can examine any spell and it tells you the Min-Max dmg range, that's where all these numbers came from. 3)-I would certainly hope so...that's the point of this post, to get clarification from higher level Wizards/Warlocks about their dmg output.

Nope, this was true pre-patch, every time I grouped with a warlock our Main nukes hit for about the same amount. Post-patch their nuke got boosted 50%. I didn't make this up, it's on the patch notes, and Warlocks in-game are most definitely seeing it.

That's nice Supa, but Freeze stops working at 35. I'm not sure when the training upgrade stops working, but it can't be much further. By "stops working" I don't mean it gets resisted more often or anything...you just cannot cast it on a mob lvl 35 or higher. Blazing Intimidation is ok...when it hits...with the recast timer of 45 sec. Last Night in Runnyeye most mobs were consistently resisting it, they were usually about 3 lvls higher than me. You may be content killing Blue/White mobs, but I want spells that can be used in regular grp adventuring. If you think about it, in a group situation, all the patch did for us at lvl 32 is give us 120ish extra dmg from Icy Coil in the beginning...every 30 sec or so...that's how long it takes to cast/expire. At the same time, now Essence Harvest stuns for 10 sec...yay. I know that's "working as intended" now, I'm just saying at lvl 32, patch didn't really "help" much.

Ball of Fire(Adept I) At lvl 32 has a power cost of 120. And don't worry, I'm very happy to see the lack of Flaming on this post. Hopefully we can remain objective and discuss facts

Thank you killzone, this is what I was looking for: Information on what happens at higher levels, though I wouldn't mind seeing some numbers

Uhm...I didn't get a 300% dmg boost at lvl 32...all I got was 120ish extra damage every 30 sec or so from Icy Coil. I'm not complaining about it, it just seems marginal compared to what our cousins got, 250ish extra damage every 10 sec or so

If you want nubers go over to the warlock forum and look around, there was a nice parsce from a lvl 50 put up with their main spells, but notice that the average damage of the spells was brought way down when you read it because even though they might hit for 900, they have a chance to dot for around 30 and that gets enterted as a complete hit for the spell.

I started a topic to see if any wizards had comparable data to post along side, but haven't had any responses yet.

Quote: Uhm...I didn't get a 300% dmg boost at lvl 32...all I got was 120ish extra damage every 30 sec or so from Icy Coil. I'm not complaining about it, it just seems marginal compared to what our cousins got, 250ish extra damage every 10 sec or so

it wasn't a 330% increase across the board. It was an increase that effects wizards between 30-50, with some spells increased as much as 300% in the damage.

Other changes in timers allow chain casting of spells that do highd damage.