Why should Monks Tank better than Guardians?

I don't play on test, so I can't comment. But I will say that if Guards with current game mechanics end up with a bit more mitigation, and a lot less avoidance, then we will be hurting.

Will this happen? I don't know.

Reducing damage is nice, but totally being un-damaged and un-affected by a hit is also key.

This discussion is in fact... so last month, no wait the month before last.

http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=3&message.id=10344&view=by_date_ascending&page=1

I honestly don't have any idea where your getting the 50%ish mitigation mines usually higher than that in most solo situations not sure on the exact number not to mentions mosts monks duel wield therefore the subject themselves to more riposte damage than a guardian who in most tanking situations uses a shield and a one handed weapon, this whole thing is silly actually

Don't trust the numbers on test. If I remember correctly it only has a small portion of the combat changes in place.

Guardians should have high mitigation and low avoidance.
Monks should have low mitigation and high avoidance.

It's not really that surprising is it?
Brawlers already have :
DPS equal to that of a scout
Higher avoidance than anyone
Able to tank as well as a plate wearer in everyday group situations
The ability to heal themselves and feign death
Their own perosonal line of armor (which no one else has)
Hmm, I wonder if any of the developers/GMs play bralwers?
My sources tell me YES!!!
Heisenberg 50 Guardian
Dirac 50 Warlock

I bought some insurance, I have a guardian and a monk. :smileyvery-happy:

I was here before you talking about these same things, and I'll be here after you. The "influencial minority" of the brawler forums (two of which got invited by SOE to the CS) have been talking about some sort of tanking equality (as in us not getting one hit by raid mobs) since January.
So get over yourself and your crusade as if you are some new found herald trying to rid the town of some menace.
Besides, I don't want to nerf guardians, one of my best friends in game is one. I just want to be able to tank, since I'm a fighter. They are going to lower our DPS anyway; so I think getting some tanking ability in exchange is a lot better than getting the shaft.
I love this thread though, its been awhile since we've had one of these.
Oh, and I always get a kick out of reading your old posts in the Berserker forums:

You ever going to figure out that fighters aren't meant to be DPS? Maybe you'll be rolling that scout after all
Message Edited by Gage-Mikel on 06-22-2005 11:35 PM

Well, Poochymama, since you decided to cross-post, I'll follow along.

First off, the Big Combat Revamp is turned off on the Test server "right now." If you're seeing Guardians on Test with 25% Avoidance right now then the Guardians are doing something screwy because they're operating under the same combat rules as Live. You don't see Guardians on Live with 25% Avoidance right now, do you?

Secondly, don't exaggerate. Monks do not kill mobs twice as fast as Guardians. It doesn't happen when soloing (unless the Guardian doesn't know what s/he's doing) and it particularly doesn't happen when grouping (with the Guardian or Monk tanking), as other party members' DPS diminishes the difference between Monks and Guardians significantly. Therefore, Monks don't take half the number of strikes that Guardians do, they take maybe 4/5, or at most, 3/4 of the strikes Guardians do.

Finally, I don't know where you're getting your numbers, but you should go back and question them. There will be a 15% base difference in Mitigation between Heavy and Light armor. If the Monk had about 45% Mitigation then the Guardian should have had around 60% Mitigation; if the Guardian had about 50% Mitigation then the Monk should have had around 35% Mitigation. Since the spell/CA changes haven't even hit Test yet the difference should be even bigger as Guardians currently get more Mitigation buffs than Monks do (in fact, I don't think a Monk gets any Mitigation buffs, save the one that stuns them while it's up, the Face of the Mountain line).

Don't go quoting numbers that are obviously wrong about a system that is currently turned off and then exaggerate about the results; it only decreases your credibility.

Its like living in a apartment building, and the people are across the hallway are always fighting, yelling and partying. And sometimes the riftraft rolls through your door and land in your living room, spilling beer all over the carpet and flicking ashes in the floor.
Get yer redkneck brawler arses up off our carpet before we call the cops. Cant you all maintain? :smileyhappy:

And get out of the [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] pretzels and go home, no, we dont have any old milwaukees best...


again, poochymomma, I agree totally, but, this topic has been beat to death a hundred times.. Go search the guard forums, tons of threads complete with spitting' eye gouging, points, counter points, sarcasm and whitty remarks..
Nothing changed since then, and most opinions are probably still the same.



Message Edited by uglak on 06-23-2005 01:26 PM

ROFLMAO!

Whats up man, still got the zerker/monk thing going? I take it you still havent broke out a guardian yet?

But, glad to see you still around.

Nope, no Guardian yet, just my Monk and Zerker, and most recently a Fury. I'm a roleplayer at heart and Guardians just don't inspire me. I keep an occasional eye on the Guardian board, though; there's some keen minds here, even if some of you are a bit touchy about the whole Monk/Guardian thing. Good to see you too.

First off when i first made this post thats how it was on test. Secondly im not exaggerating a guardian with full legendary armor will hover around 50% mitigation. A monk with full legendary armor will hover around 40% mitigation. A monk with full fabled armor will be at about 45% mitigation and a guard with full fabled armor will be around 55% mitigation. And as far as monks killing a solo mob twice as fast, thats true because monks usually parse twice as high as a guardian. If anything they need to fix the way avoidance scales with lvl, and then monks need to be nerfed not upgraded.

For one, guardians can DPS just about as good as us. Sigon is often within 10%~ of my DPS on raids.
For two, now you are asking for a monk nerf? That's nice.
For three I doubt you play on test, as all your numbers and information are inaccurate, so how about you just shush up, with your flame threads and nerf calls.

Having lots of alts I read almost all the class boards.
You can see posts by this guys in :
Warlocks forums asking for Warlock DPS increase
Wizard forums asking why Warlock DPS is so high and why arent Warlocks nerfed
He seems to be getting some kick out of threads like this :smileyvery-happy:

Here we go again.... :smileysad:
Message Edited by uglak on 06-24-2005 03:33 AM

Message Edited by Gage-Mikel on 06-24-2005 03:59 AM

I do not care if my "opnion" matters to you or not. But when you post BS, I will call it BS so others do not get confused. And yes, most of yours are in fact BS. Including this one. But, I will say, your a legend in your own mind.

At the end of the day, nerf or no nerf, there is only 1 (or maybe 2) MT by raid, and reading descriptions of each class, Guardian should be the best class to the do the job.

Other tank class should be able to do MT too, it's just going to be easier for a guardian.

After the class revamp, if any other class is better MT than guardian, it's just going to be temporary and i wouldn't worry about it.

Gage, you should be ashame saying that guardian does only 10% less DPS. You are obviously doing something wrong or you are just focusing on 1 mob resistant to blunt.

On single targets monk/bruiser is currently the best DPS. What's your parser showing? Monk/bruiser can do close to 300 DPS when the best guardian can do is 200DPS with fail.

ZEK is a very bad example for DPS parsing and you know it, all skills used in Zek are not intended to be used on other raids (Tremor, taunting assault). Don't bring zek for DPS arguments

As for me, guardian can do 10 DPS i don't care as long as we can keep agro.

Last advice, if you expect monk to MT you are deadly wrong, reroll a tank class. If you look at all fantasy books/games monk are not meant to be MT.

I think it was a mistake from Sony to put it in the fighter archtype, they should have created a specific archtype for them. They should be the ultimate pullers but Sony see that as cheat i guess

Sirriun

Message Edited by Sirrion77 on 06-24-2005 05:34 AM

Hrmm, never going to come to the dark side eh? Glad your still around, even though we have to argue most of the time.
:smileywink:

Glad some peeps still enjoy the game, as well as arguing on messageboards while your stuck at work.

Poochymama, as near as I can tell, you first posted this on 6/19. The combat changes on Test have been turned off since 5/13. Since your first post on these forums is on 5/14 I find it highly doubtful that you have any first-hand information or, for that matter, second-hand information, on how the Big Combat Revamp affects mitigation or avoidance.

Secondly, Monks usually parse twice as high as a Guardian because, in a group together, Monks are doing DPS and Guardians are tanking. I repeat, when soloing, Monks' DPS is not 2x that of Guardians', it's more around 1.25x; moreover, when grouping, the DPS difference between a Monk and a Guardian when performing the same role is even less significant because it is eclipsed by the other party members' DPS.

Once again, based on the info in the Test Server Update Notes about the Big Combat Revamp, the unbuffed mitigation difference between a Monk wearing Light Armor and a Guardian wearing Heavy Armor of similar quality should be about 15%. Since you're quoting numbers at (previously) 5% to (now) 10% it appears to me that your base info is wrong. Either wait until the Big Combat Revamp is reactivated (should be soon according to Moorgard) and get some new numbers or go ask some different testers what their mitigation and avoidance was while the Big Combat Revamp was active.

Until then, these posts are just flames seeking attention.