Why is DoV pre-order far more expensive for International players?

feldon30 wrote:

you can find it through this
http://www.google.com/
same was a lot of people did

I did google for a few minutes but didn't find it. What I did find was editorials about the pro's and cons of charging in USD vs charging local currencies and services that provide companies with the opportunity to have international customers pay in their local currency using current exchange rates.
Cause that what it boils down to. I don't think any of the international customers would mind paying in their local currency, as long as they would pay the same (before VAT, if applicable) as US customers.

Cratoh wrote:

Not really. International players are being ripped off the same way with the exchange rates being used to buy station cash.

I've bought in Euros from various European companies, $CDN from Toronto and various companies in the US all living here in Blighty.
Please don't be diluting the thread with futile arguements about trading laws the fact is many of us outside the US buy from the US quite happily paying the US$ price and letting our banks and credit card companies deal with the exchange rate.
International players are ripped off with station cash prices and subs and most of us live with it because it's a marginal amount and we love the game.
Paying so much more on the new expansion is pure greed on SOE's part and their marketing department are doing a great job of alienating the ROTW.

feldon30 wrote:

No idea what your TLA stands for. nor do I really care. I did the research on my own time for myself to respond, if you want to know the information you can do the research on your own time.

TBH just being able to use Paypal* would resolve the problem for Non-US customers.
* Which must be either outlawed in the US or too tiny to care according to Wingrider...

BTW Switzerland here, we got a slighty better deal with the CE at 73$... (max. VAT being 8%)

VAT on E-Commerce Directive
http://itlaw.wikia.com/wiki/VAT_on_...merce_Directive
However, SOE didn't change my Station Account from dollars to GBP until 2008 - FIVE years after this directive came about. It's an unenforceable "directive", and there's nothing stopping a US company from ignoring it. However, if SOE are registered in the EU, which they probably are, they reclaim VAT anyway - making the whole thing a moot point.
So, I'd like to make a point here, that if SOE want to be competitive in the international marketplace they need to have different price points for their game. Blizzard do not take the dollar price for their game & do a quick exchange rate calculation (and slap VAT on it).

A World of Warcraft subscription costs LESS in the UK than it does in the US (in spite of +20% tax in the UK).

An EQ2 subscription costs the SAME in both countries.

But - in the UK alone - the expansion is 33% more, station cash is 33% more. The question is "Why?" and "Where is this extra money going?" (Because at the most, the taxman only wanted 17.5% (only recently changed to 20%) and if SOE are VAT registered in the EU, they claim it all back anyway!)

Let's take station cash for example:


Do you know that to buy an SC mount in Sweden, it costs an extra 87.5 krona?
Thats 38.73 US dollars instead of $25. Practically a month's subscription extra.
For a mount!
Call that a micro payment, because I don't!

This RIP-OFF has to stop!

Either you sell your product in dollars, and allow anyone, anywhere, to buy it.
Or enter into the marketplace locally and price your product at reasonable cost for that market.

Wingrider01 wrote:

Clearly, we'd be happy for the CC provider to take 3 - 8 percent rather than have to pay 33% more. Or is that math too simple for you? I, however, have a Mastercard with no currency transaction fees whatever. So I'd pay the dollar price at current exchange rates, tyvm.
Bottom line: it may be "their rules", but SOE will lose sales of the expansion over this, and they do currently lose sales of station cash directly because of their extortionate exhange rates. This last item is a FACT as I do not buy SC for this very reason.

Aemm@Splitpaw wrote:

Someone did some research. Well done and thank you.
Now sort this mess out SOE!

I'm in Australia and was speaking to a UK friend of mine the other day about this and I asked him if he had pre-ordered the expansion in spite of the price. He said he had, and he figured he’d just become desensitised to SOE’s bad behaviour. My partner and I have also wondered, is it worth kicking up a fuss over $15 or $20? At first glance $15 or $20 mark up does not seem much to worry about, however what concerns me the most about this particular situation is that SOE are setting a precedent, they have charged customers from different countries different prices for a digital download- something which costs them nothing more to distribute to other countries. Further, they have not been able (or willing) to tell us why we are being charged extra and how they arrived at the figures they have (it has been 8 days since this thread was created). They haven’t even been able to break the price down for us so that we can see exactly what we are paying for (something that should be a simple matter and a process that any customer service rep in accounts should be able to do).
Price discrimination is not new. It is illegal in the US to charge someone a different price because of their gender but from what I can understand from the research I’ve done online, companies can charge whatever they like online. I have (strong) reason to believe that SOE are charging international customers extra simply because they can. I think they have probably looked at Apple and Kindle charging international customers more for digital downloads and thought why not make a few extra bucks? However, Apple and Kindle have other factors to consider such as license holders whereas SOE do not. I think SOE are just hoping we give up, pay the money and stop asking questions. I don't think they can answer us without hanging themselves.
In another thread on these forums someone hypothesised that digital downloads were the way of the gaming future. If that is indeed the case, then SOE’s underhanded pricing for international customers should concern all gamers, not just SOE subscribers or international customers. For our friends in the US, don’t forget, to the rest of the world you’re the rest of the world and you’re just as likely to be hit by unfair and underhanded price hikes for games in the future if the rest of the gaming world sees SOE get away with this. After all, why wouldn’t other games companies follow suit and make a few extra bucks for nothing if they can get away with it? On top of that, as there has been no explanation given for the different prices, what’s to stop them from hiking up the price next expansion? $15 or $20 might not be worth digging in our heels over but what if the hike up is $40 or $50? Where does it stop and why should we have to pay anything without knowing what we are paying for?
To anyone who is being charged extra on your digital download, I encourage you to contact the accounts department through customer support and to ask them the questions you're asking here and to keep asking until you receive a satisfactory answer to your legitimate questions (Since writing this I have exhausted my options through CS and have had to contact SOE corporate, so you might want to just skip the process and go straight to them- though it has been two days and I’m still waiting for an acknowledgment ). Don't spend a cent or a penny until you know what you're paying for.
To Zaldor: The challenge isn't in getting the pricing right, it's in getting us to blindly hand over our money for nothing
To Wingrider01: CBA means couldn't be bothered but the UK people often say couldn't be a...ed (another word for donkey). It isn't meant to be derogatory or insulting at all. I could BA and I spent over an hour looking for this law you mentioned but was unable to find anything expect a new credit card law which has recently been brought in that requires US banks to be more upfront and honest about their dealings with customers. In addition, I think that if this law existed as you have interpreted it and was the reason for the mark ups, SOE would have been shouting it from the rooftops by now and I wouldn't have had to spend my morning searching for it to no avail.

Stop bellyaching people - vote with your feet if you feel strongly about it.
I have 3 EQ2 accounts, - none of which have been queued up to buy the expansion yet. I'm waiting for a redname response to this thread before I decide to buy or not, but at £150 ($240) to change , i'm not willing to press those payment buttons yet.
To mitigate my pain?
Well just bought 6 months of RIFT at £35 and my fallback WoW subscription is still in place. WoW since Cataclysm is a game reborn - I hated it before but since the revamp I can easily see myself playing that more than EQ2 at the moment ( and those subscriber numbers mean that is not a flash in the pan that will disappear).
RIFT may or may not prove to be a draw. Aion and LOTRO promised to be but didn't deliver the goods. However, Blizzard with Cataclysm the subscriber numbers are guaranteed and frankly the gameplay in a hoot and EASY for a seasoned EQ2 player to make an impression.
SOE, do you really want to drive a loyal subscriber base away to a inferior game where they can have more fun for a lot less money due to in-correct international pricing by SOE?

Nobody is bellyaching as far as I can see, people hate being treat unfairly and for some paying for another game and starting a new subscription is not the answer.
Personally I'd have to spring for all the WoW expansions as I only have teh original and that's just not affordable.
I've paid up front for several months on EQ2 which I'm loathe to toss to one side and my son also plays and we enjoy working together on quests and attaining kit.
I'm glad you think WoW with it's latest expansion will suit you, good luck, (sincerely), no need to reply, after all you are putting your money where your mouth is and going so this thread is of no interest to you. Have fun.
(oh and before the thread is diluted, this is not the place to start arguing the toss about which game is better etc etc etc)
I will keep posting to try and keep this alive, or until I am driven away by a lack of good customer service.
SOE pull your finger out and answer the questions please, USA is not the centre of the universe stop being xenophobic.

For the person saying this relates to a non enforceable directive... if you really don't know what you're talking about or are just spouting a political view when people are asking for hard information just keep your mouth shut.
The VAT chargeability is covered by the Place of Supply of Services you can read up hundreds of pages on it on www.hmrc.gov.uk if you desperately want to but to summarise it in this situation...
We use and enjoy the electronic service where we are located (no this isn't defined as goods under law). SOE are required to charge the applicable VAT rate for whatever country we are located in Europe. You can massively complicate the situation with permutations but very few of them are at all likely to apply.
As to charging in other currencies you can also find the rules on that site - there is nothing to stop a US company charging in dollars if it has no place of business in Europe (which complicates matters). There are requirements on invoices to convert it into pounds however for tax purposes. That doesn't effect the currency you pay merely their Tax Returns. Thats necessary as many foreign exchange transactions are done at forward rates etc so the amounts are specified to set the value.
HOWEVER, all of these are wild goose chases - look at the US price, add 20% VAT for the UK and mysteriously the price SOE are charging is still massively more.
Yes its a con.

Wingrider01 wrote:

This bit it just not the case for me anyway - my (Australian) mastercard offers exchange rates as competitive as any I have seen anywhere, both while travelling and also when using it on US online purchases. What I do get charged however is a percent based charge for ANY foreign transaction no matter whatever currency it is charged in. So my Australian dollar SOE charges attract it just the same as if they charged in US$. The charge is about 1.5% btw.
As has been posted elsewhere - Australian VAT - called GST here - is not applicable on this sort of transaction unless it exceeds $1,000 Au$, so you can wipe the tax excuse off the Aussie price.
Therefore I get charged SOE's exhorbitant exchange rate, then a percent based international transaction fee as well!

If you've got a US Base nearby, get a US service member to help ya out. Give him the money needed to buy it for you with their credit card and you can skip the entire VAT entirely.

As release draws ever closer, I'm starting to think that there ISN'T an answer and we WON'T be getting one at all.

Thank you so much $oe...

Lysanthir Ahmquissar wrote:

Why did you post all that other rude, insulting nonsense if you are going to agree with us at the end?
This has NOTHING to do with VAT.
Wingrider is under the delusion that American companies are somehow not allowed to accept American dollars from a foreign citizen. I was told that the information is "out there if I'll just Google it." No luck so far on Snopes.com.

Oh please don't start on about comments form other people talking essentially off topic about payment methods, which anyone outside the US knows just aren't relevant, it's dead and buried. You know you're right it's pointless debating it.
I've contacted CS through my station account and guess what ? I was pointed to this thread as a way to voice my concerns lmao. Guess all my other posts truely were ignored <doh>
Amnerys, what's happening mate ? Do you expect a response from SOE higher up the food chain ?
If so what timescale do you anticipate ?
Personally I think if they do anything it will be post release so we get screwed over having to pay the higher price anyway... anyone else agree ?

Negadyen wrote:

Yup, I'm sure they will use the logic, "well, if they buy it now they are still paying less than what they will pay at release for the CE"
EEEEEEEEEEH! Wrong answer but the one I am sure they are thinking and will give anyways. People say, speak with your wallet and I am. Have yet to buy the expansion, the CE extras are waaaay underwhelming, and I play on EQIIX so letting my sub drop isn't going to prevent me from playing and they won't get anymore sub money from me.
Been doing the Rift beta and husband is really taken with it so that is prolly where I'll end up as well. SOE finally managed to run me off. /sigh

Negadyen wrote:

Lmao! I think that is SOE speak for I refuse to say anything else for fear of incriminating myself, please go back to posting on the forums so that you can be ignored. To be honest though, I don't think they are ignoring us, I think they're slightly terrified that more people will find out what they're doing so they don't want to make things worse by replying to us before they've made their money. There's a lot of people that play EQ2 that don't bother to read these forums. Might be time to tell our story to a wider audience?