Why do you hate bards?

With the new patch going in today you’re base line nerfing all scouts across the board… instead of targeting specific scout classes… Why? Dirges an troubs can barely do any dps as it is. We now have to rely on your newly “fixed” auto attack damage and even that is a minimal fix. It’s frustrating…. That out top 6? Damage abilities are either AAs or procs. Abilities such as Missfortunes Kiss and Scream of death don’t even double cast and barely even tickle the mobs… Where is our love?

"Decreased base level 121+ melee art damage multiplier from 1.7 - 2.184 [min range] to 1.53 - 2.007 [max range]."

It would have been nice to have a breakdown of which class has had their melee art damage multiplier changed.
For all we know they could have even touched the inquisitor or channeler's CAs too.
As a result, you won't know for sure until after the patch if bards have indeed been nerfed.

Take screenshots of your current stats + some if not all your CAs/AA prior to the patch.

You stand in the back and power feed and buff and let the dps do the dpsing.

That is what they told us channelers when they nerfed us from a T2 dps priest to a the joke we are now.

On the Channeler side i am a abti disopinted too, nearly 90% of Channlers CAs are DPS and Heal in both but as they dont do DPS in anyway they are only thier for be Heal CAs what a logic ??

I was happy to be in duty as a healer and a resonable DPS for Healer and all gerneral nerves of Melee or CA damage broke my dreams.
All Melee based Healers are nerved with this and we never were OP as the real scouts like Assa // Brig // Swash have been until now.

So why you cant take a smal knive and fix or erase the neccesary pice of cancer instat of cut out a doubble sized pice ??

agree totally , bards have not been touched in decades and each xpac we get worse and worse .. our combat arts are a complete and utter joke .. and our buffs are getting left behind every single xpac (ie wow we boost 100 cb to group ... yea one adorn gives you that too ..) why don't you focus on x ability like you did with mages instead of yet another blanket nurf .. my personal favourite is you changed both dagger storm and unda to being a joke and now you reboost unda ??

As a dirge i am supposed to be buffing melee .. but wait .. melee is still 90% switched off so we can't even give or get dps from that path either , you really seem hell bent on taking all the enjoyment out of playing this game for some classes

bards can do some pretty good damage now but your point about most CA/spells being useless and the buffs not keeping up still stands. VC, for now, is back somewhat but still competes with "set and forget" buffs like makeshift arrows and the like.

and I say yet again, fervor (and some other effects) never should have existed outside of AAs/Buffs so that those buffs could have continued to scale properly.

Better maybe we all suggest solutions, improvements, & make-it-betters.
Pointing out failings might not forward the action.
Basic rules of class top end limits should be revisited.
We live in a time when tanks can out DPS scouts. (egregious violation of original class precedence)
Point of order here. The Game developers are not concerned with our displeasure(s). Their clear and present focus is to control players at the expense of anything else. Bringing forward concerns (most are righteous) about Developer misdeeds will not reach sympathetic ears. They only crave data that promotes their priorities.
A good path might be to help them see how to right the ship, as it was intended.

RIverbear, that is good advice. However, that is difficult since we don't understand what their priorities are. Perhaps if they were willing to share, and work with the player-base, they could assuage some of the players, who (rightfully) feel like they are getting the shaft.

Stipulated.
ATM Developers rely on the "Sugar Cane Dragon" process to resolve mistakes - waiting for overwhelming data to demonstrate what they chose to implement was flat out unplayable.
As it stands now, in the absence of effective play test planning, it is up to us to give them good numbers, and concise input to highlight what ever abominations they hatch, .......................after the fact.

what scouts? because i can promise you my 830B dps in raids isnt outparsing the 3.3T ranger.

It cracks me up how many people rolled bards or chanters when they were at their peak and think they should always be able to DPS like a pseudo T1. As a bard, your effective DPS because of your buffs is probably the highest in the game, yet people think they need to be able to do 75% of what a T1 is doing.

As a bard or chanter, you provide crucial buffs and play a role designed to enable others. You don't need to be parsing like a pretend T1.

Not asking to be a T1 or a pretend T1... But at least give us something worth our time to cast... Priests have a higher dps potential than bards... (which is sad) but true. 75% of a T1s parse is pushing it and well out of terms for the focus but... at least 30% of a T1 should be obtainable... take example a Ranger or BL's #1 parsing ability.. I guarantee you that 1 spell alone parses more than a bard maybe even 2 bards

So, you want to parse 160B more than, afaik, the highest parsing SK in game, AND continue to provide the buffs that you do?

That doesnt sound out of line or anything.

Not sure about you but on my Troub Im doing better than healers and tanks in most grps in Heroics which is keeping me about the right spot for a bard

We are not asking to parse as T1 dps or anywhere near that but currently when some healers (furys 100%) are doing more than us thats just not right when that role is designed to heal so what's the difference ? all we are asking is to have our combat arts actually doing SOME damage and our buffs brought up to date ... This is not un reasonable as a boost to a bard is a boost to RW/Gdps via higher VC charges/procs/passives not just us.

Youre designed to support. You may want to look up what that means if youre unsure. In EQ2, with the buffs you bring to the table, it certainly doesnt entitle you to a t2 dps tier. A lot of folks have to work MUCH harder to get a raid slot. Bards and chanters can essentially show up, push 1 button, and folks are happy.

Imagine a healer or tank doing that....


Now, i do believe something needs fixed with bards un how theyre played. They should have an opportunity to positively impact the group/raid through skilled play like they used to in DoV with VC, etc. I feel that T1s are just so ridiculously high above everybody else atm, that nobody feels theyre contributing. Unfortunately, thats just a side effect of the absolutely asinine stat bloat we see every single year.

We can thank devs for letting support classes feel entitled to do dps. Bards and Enchanters should never be seen as dps classes nor should their role in groups/raids defined by how much dps they can do. Their primarily role is to support other classes and make them shine. I just can't wrap my head around the fact that bards feel hard done by here. Scouts are out of control, with yesterday's changes mages can flex a little and the only class or class type that really deserve the title of this thread are fighters at the moment whose main function as a tank is being belittled by how astonishingly little priority devs attach to balancing them out.

I digress, the issue at hand is the entire game mechanics needing a complete overhaul and bring it in line with what the original intent was behind each class. If EQ2 wants to remain attached to its traditional MMO style of tank, healer,mage,scout then a layered approach of tiny class updates will never cut it. We have all classes vying to do more dps because that is the only way they can distinguish themselves from others. Every class is going down the same line of stats for years now. If they want to appeal to the more younger entitled audience of "i want it now" then at least try to make the shift clear to everyone and make changes that are at least believable.

Right now EQ2 is suffering from the long illness of identity crisis and developers who are unwilling to accept that years of snowballing mechanics have finally reached a point where you they can't shove more snow on to it anymore. The roadmap selling point is yet another server with a new set of mechanics that will draw nostalgic players in for a bit of a boost in income for a bit before we see the obligatory "we heard you guys and there you go a new server" thread coming up on forums again.

says the guardian who is doing more dps than those said bards ... yet the bards are not hard done by when a guardian is doing more damage than them ? mmmm

Coming in on the other side of this, as one who raids a dirge I gotta say I don't think a boost in their damage output is necessary. Not to be rude but if personal dps is your first priority as a dirge you probably shouldn't be playing one.

If anything, I'd rather see our buffs get a revamp - there's a few that are a never-use or too situational. As most have said, effective dps is the key here. The utility is invaluable, can't overlook that. That being said, I make the attempt to push out as much dps as I can with what I have, and make the most effective use of my utility to help the rest of the raid. Even then I feel like I've come up with some impressive moments in the dps department.

As a dirge, I come in clutch with power feeds
I strive to be on top of rezzing (in the unfortunate scenario somebody does die)
VC is still an amazing ability
Hell, I've even saved a couple behinds with my stoneskin AA and HoT spell

Troubs, I don't have much on that outside of their buffs could use a retouch also. But dirges are 100% viable and important to have en masse in a raid force.

Priorty{ 830B sounds about right for your Templar. Sorry for the confusion, I was mentioning tanks. My bad.
And as much as it pains me to admit it, Arclite is basically correct in that it takes one to know one.
-As written & intended originally EQ2 precedence of top end damage was:
Casters, scouts, tanks, heals. Reverse order for top end healing.
Plane, simple, easy to understand. The Developers have lost their way, and in painting with a wide brush his ire upon "support classes" Arclite illustrates he has also lost the handle.
Casters, scouts, tanks, healers dps caps in original design. Learn it. Live it. Love it.