Who is the best tank? Best armor. Best Hate getting skills. Message Edited by AnthonyV on 11-09-2004 03:11 PM
Warriors get the most hate generation, crusaders get more versatility. Thats basically the difference.
although a paladin tanks just fine he offers a lot of support and help to a Main Tank such as a Guardian. the paladin makes the Guardian and Priests job easier by adding protection to the tank and help with healing and if Main Tank dies he can tank just fine until group is able to recover. but a guardian just offers great taunt powers and also helps with group protections in a minor way.
Word from beta was that paladins were slightly better, but all this is subject to change as things get tweaked.
Seems like there ARE some very important differences between paladin and guardian. The guardian seems to be more of a pure fighter. Instead of getting wards, buffs, etc...he gets attacks which focus more on damage or defense. So, it seems like the paladin would be more of an assistant tank, but it wouldn't be ideal for him to be the MAIN tank. The guardian would be doing more direct damage and absorbing more dmg. The paladin would be autoattacking, or casting wards/heals/etc. Would this seem correct?
The system for EQ2 is similar to that from DAoC in a way... with the ability to protect/shield others, you see classes emerge that fit into new roles. For example classes that work exceedingly well at being an assistant to the main tank, who help shield him to take some of the hits and provide protection. I believe that over time we'll see new roles shake out that offer some new twists on the classic themes.
I never had a problem tanking as a Paladin ( low 20's), although aggro can be abit tougher until you learn how to use your skills. I found the use of wards, charge and taunts (obviously) quite useful when dealing with the mob's aggro. Don't for a second consider Guardians as the only main tank, b/c it's simply not true. With our buffs (which they mostly seem to take 1 conc. so you are limited to how many you can distribute) plus wards we are effectively equal in tanking, if not better in certain encounters. Remember two things: Guardian does not equal the Warrior of EQLive (main raid tank almost always), nor does the Paladin equal the Paladin of EQLive (mainly offtank for adds due to great snap aggro).
Every Fighter class can fill the role of main tank just fine. In the case of the Guardian and Paladin they are both well suited to being the Main Tanks in groups. They just accomplish it in different ways. The Guardian has more intercept and blocking skills while the Paladin accomplishs the exact same effect using buffs. The end result is exactly the same its just that they accomplish it in different ways. This isn't EQ 1, All the Fighters can fulfill the role of Main Tank equally well. If it's ever discovered or perceived not to be the case they you can expect nerfs/buffs coming from SOE, as they have promised that all archtypes will perform their basic jobs equally well. If we ever get to a point in the game where people say "Looking for a Main Tank, Guardians only please as Paladins are crappy Main Tanks" then you can expect the Guardian to get nerfed or the Paladin to get buffed. In beta people never said "looking for a guardian", they always just said looking for a tank as any FIghter can fulfill the role. Message Edited by Adreis on 11-10-2004 01:05 PM
Something is still nagging in the back of my mind. From looking at the warrior skills, and then looking at the paladin ones, a few things seem to stand out. Paladins are going to be quite dependant on mana. If you run out of mana...boom, it's autoattack for you. Not the end of the world. Granted, when warriors run out of mana, they are autoattacking also. BUT: A warrior uses his mana for heavy damage attacks, or defensive options. As a paladin, you'll probably be throwing out a few heals here and there. To me, one of the main attractions of a warrior is getting to such a large array of weaponry, bows, etc. That, and being able to dual wield if I choose. I think the paladins might have an edge on survivability and grouping. Those heals, the buffs...they'll be very wanted as a tank, and just as much as a second tank. If you want to be a master of weaponry and armor, and just focus on being the main fighter of a group...personally, I believe the warrior is ROLE you are looking for. Please understand what I'm saying. I'm not saying a warrior is a better tank. I'm saying a warrior is just that...a warrior. If, however, you want to wear that great armor, and still have a good assortment of weapons to choose from...in addition to being part healer/buffer...I think the paladin in EQ2 is an excellent implementation of this. In fact...as I write this...I'm fairly certain I'll end up rolling a paladin for my fighter in retail. *sigh* I guess the only way to really know is to play to 30 for each. I hate not knowing. I wouldn't mind picking one and sticking with it, if I had SOME idea of what my toon would be like later down the road.
I have a question regarding SOE's statement that "all calsses are equally good". Go to the preists sectionand compare a Templar to a Inquisitor.. They both are "cleric" class but the Templar blows the Inquisitor out of the water for there function. If given a choice i would go with Templar all day long.... and may even Looking For Templar a few times while in game.... Not a rant, just a fact. The classes are not balanced. Good Luck Guys!! Yummy..
Looking at powers, guardians seem to specialize in 'take hits for team-mate' or 'use parry/block skills for team-mate' powers. They seem to have more ability to keep people alive if they lose aggro. All tanks look to have reasonably effective lines of AE taunts. If that taunt doesn't work, the guardian will keep people alive more directly, where a paladin might have to LoH. Guardians don't look to have any more ability to tank THE BIG ENEMY any better than a paladin. No one will know for sure for several months, but both the devs comments (and player experiences) indicate that both are similar. Neither the skills or equipment list seem to support the idea of one being better than the other. Hitpoints vs Wards... etc. In a group situation, a split pair is probably better than two of one type. One way to do this if for, the paladin to buff the guardian. With paladin buffs, the guardian will be better than either an unbuffed guardian or a paladin. Alternately, the paladin could be the main tank while the guardian siphoned off hits and block/parried for the paladin. Either way seems to work pretty well.
If you look at the spell list you will see that Paladins offer 2 things that may not be obvious at first. 1) Many ways to manipulate themselves 'up' the hate list. While many of the fighter classes have basic taunts and ways to generate a lot of aggro, Paladins have some good ways to be more manipulative. A good 'kill me instead' class - very compatible with the ideas of a paladin. 2) Tremendous ally to the party's healer. Here is the problem you always see: Things aren't going well, healer needs to heal a bit more than we would like. Healer gets all aggro. Healer heals self - welcome to the world of not being able to get aggro off the healer. A smart healer with a smart paladin will realize why the paladin has a number of single-target short-life wards. Paladin's do their best to keep a healer alive while converting that aggro onto themselves and minimizing the healers need to self-heal and make a bad situation worse. Just my opinion.
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