What is the Overall Concept we want from PvP Combat?

Discussion in 'PvP TLE Discussion' started by Hihibanana, Aug 10, 2019.

  1. Hihibanana New Member

    Scouts, Mages, Priests, Fighters. Do we want the scouts to be able to win as long as they get the upper hand? Aren't they already good at getting the upper hand though? Do we want fighters to be very durable, but hard to maneuver with? Do we want Priests to cancel out burst damage? Aren't Priests sort of without weaknesses?

    What do we want each fight to feel like? What is the goal, and what makes a good PvP experience?
    Obano likes this.
  2. Obano Well-Known Member

    PvP is not balanced on 1 vs 1. It is about groups verses groups.

    The problem on Nagafen 2.0 is the FFA pvp rules discourage group pvp. They really should go back to faction based PvP and leave FFA for exiles.
  3. Drew575 Active Member

    Sure... if this was 2008 and there was a sustainable population. FFA pvp works now because there isn't. Besides, this is hardly the problem. The fact that there is no incentive to group pvp aside from vanity items...that's the true problem. Stop trying to fix what isn't broken.
  4. Xiao Member

    Then you will seldom find a fight.

    The vast majority rolls on FP side and it has always been that way because of lowbie quest distribution and layout of Qeynos is horrible. FFA PvP is far superior in many aspects than any other ruleset, especially under the conditions this server is restricted to. It is better to have more people to fight and build small factions among yourselves than have a large faction with nobody to fight.

    I have grouped with you many times now and I have made a relationship with most of your guild, even though I don't really like you personally. If you've ever played on a FFA ruleset this is a core component. The purpose is to give you more people to fight if you so choose to, yet provide the capability to "build faction" within a city. Additionally, from a lore standpoint, why wouldn't evil characters be KoS to each other?

    Faction based PvP would be the end of PvP in EQ2, although it looks like that ship sailed regardless because of a number of problems this development team refuses/can't acknowledge.
  5. Hihibanana New Member

    I always thought grouping was incentivized by a strong PvP presence. For example, if there is someone ganking questers, people would group up to take on that person. If that person had a group, you would get two groups. It was more about maintaining the fun of the game.
  6. Minko New Member

    LOL... Do you even remember how many people were on the beta for that server? Sure it wasn't 2008 levels, but was a hell of enough to have a sustainable population had it been done properly. Then the **** show killing each other on refugee island started. But FFA was the only way to go right? All those people, and a whole bunch of new people also. How many quit from the relentless 6 man same faction ganking? FFA was a stupid af idea.
    Siren likes this.
  7. Minko New Member

    ORRR, give incentive to switch factions to balance out the faction distribution. Put a board in the middle of each city that displays the faction statistics and a npc that will instantly change you to the other faction and drop you into their city with your reward if the distribution is bad enough say 40-60 it'll give the reward to the first 10% of players that change faction. Idk 100% xp bonus for 5 hours as long as you remain on the faction you changed to, 20% coin boost for a few hours. Something to make people who aren't tied to their faction want switch over.

    In regards to your lore comment, do you walk down the street and kill your neighbours on sight? It's not good and evil, it's qeynos and freeport. Sure qeynos give off a good vibe and freeport a bad vibe, but they are cities first and foremost. Why would a orge kill a troll? They both live in the same city ruled by the same overlord, if anything they should band together.
    Siren likes this.
  8. Minko New Member

    To actually answer the OP, the ideal concept of pvp would be to have a permanent server, zero pvp rewards (including titles) to avoid as much 6 man ganking 1-2 people as possible. In addition, faction based pvp if people want ffa they can go exile but it's not fun getting ganked by your own side relentlessly and completely removes the want to run across the world to find pvp.

    Individual class balance isn't that important, as long as each class can sufficiently do it's job and none are stupidly op (look at SKs of the past). Mystic and defilers need a sustainable casting speed on their wards for pvp, temps and inquiz need the reactive heals buffed slightly (possibly cast times down maybe reuse time on reactives as well, never really played one too much) Need to gut scout track, I'm all for keeping it but reduce it's effective range in pvp by 50% or so and if the target leaves a certain range they drop off the map and are no longer tracked. Everscout is no fun. I don't want to get into too much class balance here, as long as they do their job and aren't extremely oppressive the rest can be worked out. Example of oppressive, the rogues daring advance interrupt proc every other hit makes casting impossible. Reduce the proc amount to make them less oppressive to casting classes, a good priest/mage should beat a bad rogue, but that's just not going to happen with daring advance as long as he's clicking buttons and auto attacking. Or remove the interrupt portion of the proc and move some of the interrupts to their longer cd CAs as an example.

    Proper itemization and a semi-slow leveling curve that forces people to be in a certain tier for a decent amount of time. 100-10,000xp 1-10, 20,000-40,000xp 11-20, 80,000-160,000 20-30, ect. This is a rough example, by no means a proper curve. But with that said a proper curve is going to end up with a lot of the population building in a certain tier for an extended amount of time. When you can go from 10-20 like 4 times for the same amount of xp it takes to get from 30-40. Eventually the lower people will get caught up to the 30-40s.

    The real important part is the itemization, it has to be engaging and feel like your actually getting upgrades... Handcrafted gear < quested gear < treasured gear from mobs < mastercrafted gear < heroic zone gear < raid gear. Would love to see drop rates on rares go back down and if MC gear is actually good they will be worth something on the market specially on a pvp server.

    And please for the love of god no pvp gear. Let the pve gear be the pvp gear. A person who doesn't raid should have a innate disadvantage against someone who has spent countless hours raiding to gear their toon to the nines.

    This game was first and foremost a pve centered game. Content needs to be reasonably hard. It should take 3 people to kill a single ^^^, 2 to kill a ^^ and single ups should be soloable but harder than normal mobs. Normal mobs should be a even challenge to kill at white con maybe kill 2 at a time in good gear(treasured-MC), blue slightly easier, green easily killed, grey no challenge. yellow hard to kill, orange most likely going to die, red you're going to die. When content is difficult but not too difficult people feel like they can solo quests even if slowly, but know they need help with certain mobs and quests which promotes grouping.

    This is what I would like to see in a permanent pvp server.

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