Supernova7 said various things: I prefer a 3 min recast gate back home to a long casting interruptable evac that doesn't work in-combat, but that's just my opinion. Warden evac is in combat, as is every other type. I'm still on my first stack of odyssey stones so my opinion differs. Furthermore, SoW and Invis, these can be granted with SoW totems (or horse / jboots / carpet etc) and Chameleon totems. Basically I can buy the Shaman / Druid utility spells off the broker for a few silver Chamelon totem is a level 37 recipe, with only 6? uses. Drop and restore it for any reason, and thats another charge gone. I have yet to see them on Najena for under 1.5g if they are on the broker at all. Templar utility is bonus healing,i.e. Non-existent which cannot be bought off the broker Potions.
Yeah, odyssey is pretty slow. It provides me with some entertainment because I keep it next to the divine awakening button. I haven't sent any group members home, yet. I look forward to the day when the elf smacks me from the other desk (trying to interrupt my peals of laughter.)
What case? You walked in with conclusions but nothing to support them. "Ladies and Gentlemen of the jury, allow me to save you the expense of a trial by jumping straight to my summation: Templars are guilty - the end." Who needs facts, research, or even just basic questioning when you've already come to a conclusion that fits the argument you want to make, right? In any regards, I ran several runs last night in the Clefts of Rujark with a Fury and Mystic in my group. We took turns healing the group to test out direct comparisons. We discussed our differing spell lines and parsed out numbers. We tried different combinations of debuffs/heals, and worked on some heal competitions as well (often to the terror of the Berserker in our group). One thing was that I was continually told to stop healing in fights where I hadn't cast a single heal. What was occuring was my Mark of Kings and Glory of Combat (on the two Swashbucklers) was firing off quite a bit and often I'd perform 2,000 or more points of heals in a group even without casting a single spell. I'd say that our added healing utlity is quite evident...regardless of how you feel the case on it is closed. Message Edited by Kendricke on 10-24-2005 08:40 AM
I'm on my third stack (of 50) in the past few months. I tend to use Odyssey instead of Call (preferring to keep Call available as an emergency backup for myself) and use Odyssey for basic daily transport. For writ runs, it's invaluable. Even though I take longer on most fights than other members of my guild, the fact that I'm able to Odyssey between EVERY run to a selectable bind point (next to the writ giver), allows me to move through writs faster than anyone else in my guild.
Extra healing can be bought off the broker. Check with your local alchemist. Please refrain from misstatements. In fact there are 2 different types of healing you can buy off broker. A big Heal or a HoT. Thanks for playing.
If Swashbucklers aren't present, I try other scouts, fighters, Conjuror pets, and so forth till I find what is best for the use of the spell. If I'm somehow stuck in a unlikely situation with where I'm grouped with no scouts, no fighters, and no pet classes, I'll likely use the concentration to cast other spells. As far as PROC rates, I've seen a few good write ups in different scout and fighter forums that suggest PROC rates are not calculated on a per hit basis. Near as has been determined, PROC rates self adjust to 1h or 2h as well as dual wielding by normalizing over 3 second periods. By the way, the PROC rate from bows is pretty much outstanding. Some extended parses over thousands of fights by a friend of mine from the Assassin boards (agra) have actually demonstrated less than a 1% deviance from stated PROC rates when measured over 3 second intervals. Regardless of whether or not you're using dual wields, 1 handers, or slow 2 handers, a 5% PROC is a 5% PROC when measured in 3 second intervals of time according to him. Now granted, that's just one school of thought on the subject, but the other school I've aware of still uses a formula to normalize PROC rates over a 3 second period. The general consensus seems to be that PROC rates are not based purely on hit, but over time by measuring 3 second intervals. This is the school of thought advocated by Khaylsta (of Scout's Sanctuary). Her formula would show that (weapon delay)/3*(listed PROC rate)*100 = true normalized PROC rate.
That PROC Rate fomula isnt too far removed at all from the one that has become a standard in EQLive, and I am familiar with proc/haste rates in particular having played a bard for 5 years. I understand this is NOT EQLive. Still Kend - despite what the numbers say about what should or should not be happening, depending on which school of thought you may or may not follow - what was your experience with the lack of GoC alone on a scout class? On point - why exactly would you try for other scouts, I am assuming that is what you meant, if in a parsing mode, the dps is inconsequential? I understand why you would want them in group for dps, but wasnt this parse about healing? I would hope that the "utility" of just one of spells, i.e. GoC, isnt dependent on having a particular class. My own personal experience, unsupported by hard parses, just a year of playing and noticing power usage, cost, heal output, etc, lends itself to GoC being VERY class/character dependent. The MT for our little three-pack is a monk. He can dw, as you know. When dw, he has very high and consistent proc rates from GoC, when primary only procs are low and inconsistent. He takes less damage from ripostes, when not dw, but it does not balance. Power output actually increases from primary hand usage because of the lack of GoC, and his exceptional 72% 360deg avoidance, fully buffed from both myself and a 51 Mystic, including Avatar. I am wondering why that might be... Lates.
I guess it's just superstition as much as anything - much like lucky socks, and the number 7, and putting proc spells on the scout. As far as the parse being about healing, I didn't set up the group specifically to lock several folks into a parse for several hours. I used the group that I was in to conduct the parse overall, and asked the group members if they'd mind assisting. Please don't assume more than what is there. As far as your experiences with proc rates, perhaps you could post that on the monk or scout forums to see what they feel about the situation. Message Edited by Kendricke on 10-25-2005 06:46 AM
This is pretty helpful to me because I was noticing that my Mark of Kings and Involuntary Healer were not firing off nearly as often as I had hoped. I am not certain of the classes that the mobs we were fighting (I'd bet that they weren't scouts,) but we mainly had a fury and (sometimes) two paladins. We often don't get to put together ideal groups as we're out hunting with friends. This gives me insight on how to better prepare for the @#*^$ storm of damage we get coming at us sometimes.
Only someone completely inept would disagree with what I posted. I was making a simple point: Druids and Shamans have SoW - You can buy SoW Totems for the same effect. Many classes can become Invis - You can buy Invis Totems for the same effect. Those were major things people wanted, and the fact you can have them without playing the class or being grouped with a person of that class makes the utility spells less unique. Templar utility comes in the form of Glory of Combat, Mark line, Involuntary line, Divine Arbitrition, Sanctuary, Reverence, Faith line etc. Show me a potion that can indeffinately add a 5% group heal proc for 436 (Master 1) to be placed on as many allies as you can spare conc. Show me potions that not only put up a minor HoT, but also debuff divine resistance. Show me a potion that can trigger a minor heal, but cure trauma impairments at the same time. Show me a totem or potion that can take the sum of the group's HP and redistribute it among the group (effectively taking your tank from red to even yellow in 1 second, in my case this is about a 4-5k spot heal for the MT). Do we have totems or potions that make our groups immune to stun, stifle, fear, root etc? Do we have potions and totems that replenish health to group members when the spend power? Do we have potions and totems that boost magic/mental/divine resists like mad (912 for my Master 1) and ward against upwards of 1.5k magic/mental/divine based damage? That's the gist of our utility, you can summarize that as added healing, damage prevention and resist / immunity buffs. I think most people are more concerned with our DPS than utility at this point. I'm content to just sit around and watch what goes on. I signed up to be a Templar to be a powerful healer and imo I am that, so I'm satisfied. I can wish and hope some things would get fixed or improved, but it is more of an afterthought as far as I'm concerned. The only things I get irate over if Templars saying that other classes can outheal us a dozen times over and have unique and interesting utility, when it is shared by many classes and can even be purchased in some cases.
Well, that is about what templar healing utility is worth. So fact is that you get the templar utility from broker too. I am not laughing. But then again, I have a templar.
Druids and Shamans have SoW - You can buy SoW Totems for the same effect. Many classes can become Invis - You can buy Invis Totems for the same effect. which class doesnt have Call of Qeynos / Call of Freeport / Splitpaw?
What does that have to do with anything? We were talking about class utility spells, not the gates that everyone can get.
So.. do you really believe that our slow casting oddessy is even slightly comparable to a get out of trouble free Evac? When all classed get home gate spell. Choice between 2 people who heal approx the same.. One can do get out of gaol free evac One can add DPS Do you ever dungeon crawl without Evac? is evac preferable? I think you are sadly mistaken n the difference between evac and Oddessy ( oops my COQ is down... please save me thr trouble of running compared to everyones gonna die and we would have to do a corpse run but hey.. we have a priest class who can evac..)
No, I don't believe they are slightly comparable. You apparantly do not, either - and yet you keep comparing the two. I believe Odyssey is comparable to Spirit of Wolf, since that's the same level druids and shamans get that spell. You can't compare a level 13 class spell against a level 39 subclass spell and expect equivilancy. As far as Odyssey vs. Spirit of the Wolf, I'd take Odyssey in a minute. There is NO totem or potion that gives the same effect. If you're going to compare apples to apples, at least compare Warden "evac" to the other level 39 priest spells. Incidently, Wardens receive their evac, Verdurous Journey, at the same level Furies gain Spirit of Cheetah - NOT the level they receive invisibility (which is often compared apple/apple to Evac). Also at 39, Templars receive our stun, Inquisitors receive a root/stifle, Defilers receive a fear, and Mystics receive a massive slow - all spells which seem designed to remove or reduce the danger facing a priest's group, presumably to give time for an escape or to regain control of a situation gone badly. Message Edited by Kendricke on 10-27-2005 07:54 AM
The problem is we all know what a cleric is in fantasy terms, and an EQ2 Templar is not a cleric. I'm not quite sure what it is any more, but it's not a cleric. The oddly funny thing is that in spite of how badly EQ1 has gone down the toilet the last couple years, its Cleric class is far better at being a cleric than EQ2's Templar class.
