The changes coming in LU 20 look really bad. We know some form of them will go in to correct our damage and balance us out with the other classes. At least, that's the intention. Now, we know how SOE develops software (with a sledgehammer) so we know we're probably going to get kicked back to the old days of T2 or T3 DPS. Don't get me wrong, I really, really hope our damage is still decent and we really are comparable to sorcs and assassins. But I fear this is just the pendulum swinging BACK toward 'Ineffective' and away from 'Holy Crap!' where we've been since LU13. These changes will likely have unintended consequences and affect us more severely than SOE wants. So what do we do? We fight. We are a DPS class and we will not give up our damage. We don't walk away in droves, scream at the Devs, hate on other classes and each other. We stick together, we stay focused, we fight HARD. Our community has been a very cohesive group for a while now, and while things have been more tumultuous here for the last several months, you cannot deny that this is an active community with some very passionate people. Even those who I've argued with directly, I recognize that we have one thing in common: that we care passionately about the ranger class. I realize people are going to vent for a while - go for it. Commiseration and sympathy will be in ample supply, and I've special ordered a LOT of extra ale for the coming months. But get the venting out of your system and if you care about this class, get ready to buckle down. Maybe I'm just sensing the winds of change blowing at hurricane force and this is all an overreaction (before the point of seeing them live no less) but maybe not. I think we'll end up doing less damage than SOE intends, and I think they're going to need our help to restore us to Tier 1, alongside sorcerors. Don't misunderstand me: the DPS that we've known since LU13 is history. It's gone. R.I.P, Super Rangers - it was fun while it lasted, c'est la vie. I'm fine with that, I'll get over it and move on. What I am NOT fine with is having the primary purpose of my class - ranged DPS - be scuttled to the point of mediocrity. DPS is not everything in this game, but it's our main role - and SOE does not want to change that. So don't wake up on the first day of LU20 and fear that you're confronting the future of your class. We may get hit hard, but we've always been a tenacious, persistant bunch. We can overcome this too, if we forego the infighting and hatred. Don't fall into that, it will only hurt us all in the long run. I hope enough of us stick this out, and work together to make it through the long haul. I'm going to do my best to endure. I hope you will too.
While I'll be the first to admit Ranger damage was too high, the nerf is much more severe then it needed to be. Only thing I can recommend is to post like mad wherever you can. Even though it doesn't seem to work for Sorcerers, it couldn't hurt. Maybe you guys could hop in the next t1 damage thread with the Wizards/Warlocks if the patch goes through.
I don't think you'll find anyone here that will disagree with you there. Right now, we know some things about these changes, and we can already start brainstorming to figure out how we'll hit the ground running come LU 20. This will definitely change our decisions about poisons, for instance. We've got some people who are very good with analysis and the whole 'math' thing (I'm not one of 'em), so I'm very interested to see what else we can come up with as a community.
Well as for poisons. You basically go back to the pre combat revamp thoughts. You look for a high dot poison. Which is really what melee classes should have been using atm since they will do more damage over time with it. The higher dot poisons actually do more damage per proc, it just takes more time to do it. If you proc less you have more time to see the full effect of the ticks. This does look like it's gonna seriously hamper the ranger solo ability tho unless other changes are put in. Like ranged arts being cast on the move again or some better damage melee attacks.
Thanks, Kaeros. We'll get through this one. I was a Ranger in EQ1. If I lived through that, and thrived, I can certainly handle this.
This is going to be a hard hitter but we should be able to overcome it all. we have been in hard times before and so have other class. we are not to damaged as some other classes are/were we will just have to watch how things go. Stay safe have Fun
Kaeros, I may not be on your server, but if I was I would buy you an ale. Heck, I would buy you 100 ales! This post was the most constructive and hopeful post I have seen on the subject of the upcoming changes and for that... thank you. If there is anything I can do to help with finding solutions or keeping up Ranger Morale, anyone can find me on the Antonia Bayle Server under the name Liriav. I love being a ranger and I know we will get through the rough stuff and have some fun. Liriav Ayr'Dal Ranger, Full Time Cookie Monster Fellowship of the Dragon Antonia Bayle Server
Re: We *are* a DPS class - and we will FIGHT!! Been there, done that. The warlocks in beta, before LU13, were deluging the devs with complaints about the nerfing of their damage and change of primary role. Didn't make any difference at all. If Sony decides to nerf an overpowered class, they hit hard and don't ever change their minds.
As always Kae, I'll be there to fight with ya. You've been an inspiration to many Rangers here and I don't think it will be to hard for you to rally them to this cause. I wish I had 1/10 your communication skills and your patience. Fight on Brother!
Im with my predator bretheren on this one.... I dont want to have my goody good brothers bring bad name to the predator familly!! PROC BALANCE= GOOD, BUT NERFAGE WITHOUT COMPENSATION= EXTREEMELY BAD
lol pretty funny. Uh we already cast our CAs as fast as possible, do you really think some high DOT poison is going to help? I would be very surprised if your DOT poison procs once on a typical single heroic mob after this change. There's no 'strategy' to figure out - we're dead as a real dps class. Wouldn't surprise me at all if the swashy/brigands do more than we do after this change, so roll one of them and get a lot more utility with the same dps.
Pretty [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] if they are trying to balance ranger dmg with poisons to sorcerer damage. Rangers dont really do anything but damage, whereas sorcerers (and I play a wiz) get several buffs that increase the damage of the group. If after this nonsense, rangers using legendary poisons are doing the same damage as wizards or warlocks, than they really f'ed up They should just lower the damage on poisons, and give casters potions that add crap to offensive spells (they can do that now)
I do think you guys are getting hit kinda hard. Perhaps you could join the Sorcerors in getting what needs to be done accomplished. With the combined voices of Rangers and Sorcerors that should be alot of people.
Based off what though... do rangers have to buy [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] to be able to match the damage of mages who stand back and press buttons? That's unfair... poisons should be somewhat of a bonus; especially to a class which offers relatively nothing but damage. Right now, if a ranger uses no poison, they are far under sorcerer damage... and it's much worse on multimob encounters. Message Edited by Goozman on 02-15-200608:11 PM
Well, nothing much we can do but sit and watch what happens. i calculated about a 30-40% dps decrease from what we are at now, were not like wizard classes and such, we got no group buffs, not really any great debuffs. We are basically nothing but ranged dps, its what we thrive for. Not like we dont pay through the nose unlike any other class for spells, poisons and arrows. o well, high maintinece T6 dps class with no group buffs FTW Message Edited by TrigunVash on 02-15-200608:34 PM
Im gonna say it I TOLD YOU SO ....... a few weeks ago while they were in nerf ranger part 1 and SOA was hit ..and the poison proc off one hand and the hand held weapons not procing thru bow shots. i remember people say ohhh no you are so wrong ..the whining mages wond affect our class .. we are he happy dev loving bunch who get change thru calm constructive communication . BS well here it is ...we suck . mages got nothing ..we got nefed. ..while mages came into the forums and posted falsly that they were rangers and made exagerated claims on doing 3000 dps ..and how they felt they should be nerfed ..ya said nothing ..while wizards came in here posting that they are sooo hard done by and couldnt get it thru their heads that parsers only show'd a portion of their dps contributions ..we said ohhh we agree we need a nerf to our dps cause parsers show our dps mixed in with the buffs from the group .. ooohhh we are sooo op. when wizards and rangers could solo the same mobs ..and would die to the same mobs ...yeah we needed fixing! BS Picture it in yer mind now .. you are out soloing, beside you stands a wizard you are both hunting ^^ blue or white mobs. the wiz beside you leads of with his root spell .. you lead off with culling the weak ..or stealth attack ..no poison procs ..the mob is runing at you . the wiz hammers the mob with a dot or ice commet ..mob is still rooted. you fire off a quick double shot ..poison doesnt proc (can't get stun to land) . wiz casts another root to keep mob pined, the mob is at you you stun it and try to back away ..quick shot is used up ..try tripple shot ..stun over mob is on you ..cant get off triple shot ..time for hand to hand ..... swing 60 points swing 90 points .. trying to get a stun poison to proc off of yer one hand ,swing, swing . mob is still at 70% wiz lands a bomb on the mob his is at 20% and breaks the root starts in on the wizard the wiz takes a hit (perhaps the mob rooted itself hiting the wiz?) but if no wiz casts a root and backs away. ranger swing swing mob at 60% ranger taking damage from mob ..ranger stuned 4 seconds ....stifled ......ranger health down to 50% trying to get away from mob. cheap shot is back stun the mob back up use quick shot and pray to god you can proc a poison this time .....cause if you dont ....you are dead! wizard lands his last nuke on the mob ...waits a second for power ...starts in on the second .... ranger is runing backwards in circles firing a shot every 5 -7 seconds praying for a stun proc to land so he can use triple shot or try to get lucky with a few SOA and hope he can keep the stun going ......... this is why the ranger paid 6G for the poison ...this is why he is in T1 dps list ..so he can run in circles backward firing debilitating arrow when it refreshes ..and on auto attack .....hoping for that 25% chance every 7 seconds to proc his poison . You cant get your stun poison to proc .. you are stuck in hand to hand on auto attack cause ya only have 2 attacks for non stealth non positional meele. You are fighting as well as a brigand or swashie 12 levels or more lower than you. ...at this point a furry can out dps you. This is your future ........... Message Edited by KannaWhoopass on 02-15-200609:07 PM Message Edited by KannaWhoopass on 02-15-200609:14 PM
Kanna...I think I might see your point here...but what exactly is your solution? I seem to be missing it...
Simple leave our procs alone!!!!!! adjust poison dps chnage affencive stance ...do whatever you want but leave proc% alone. It is how rangers compensate for not having a root. We pay gold to BUY a root capacity so we can solo ..simple as that ..if i cant root a mob with the same reliability as a wizard im broken ..more so than a wiz i need to keep a mob off me ... When a wiz is being hit he has access to all of his DPS at any range. when im stuck in hand to hand im toast ...i have died to green ^^ mobs in SC when my stun poison drops and im not ready. i have 10 levels on those things .. and i cant toe to toe fight one. a wizard would nuke the thing to ashes before he died toe to toe. I would say this nerf would be the same as saying to a wizard ... your root spell is now a 75% fizzle. but its worse cause how often do you think ill land a stun off hand to hand to give me a chance to back up ... and use any of my attacks ...as it is now cheap shot is over soooo fast i cant get off tripple shot with it. Poison = lifeblood of a Ranger ......nerf procs = Offenceive stance nerf = Poison nerf = Gleaming strike nerf all in one ......combine that with the no proc of hand weapons thru bow and poison procs off 1 hand ......BS Nerf sooo over the top i told my guild i may not be here for expansion. I have Raid attendance of 90% over the past 4 months .....If you can upset a guy like me enough to leave the game .. SOE dont buy the new server hardware ya wont need it. The proc rate was needed for rangers ...25% chance to land poison so what on tripple shot we had a 75% chance to stun.. If they turned thorny trap into an unbreakable 10 second root ..perhaps that would compensate ....but i doubt it.
