Bansaw@Blackburrow wrote: Do you even read? Furys get the exact same heal as Healstorm, down to the same heal values, except their version is called Autumns Kiss. They not only get the same heals we do, they also have Hibernation on top of that. The only thing we get in comparison is the Tree and you certainly cannot tell me that they even begin to compare. Furys simply have more tools than us to keep a group alive ergo they are better group healers. I can't believe that even straight facts are not enough. No wonder warden class issues are never addressed.
Gitana@Runnyeye wrote: So lets apply your logic to a dps parse. It doesn't matter how much damage you can do it's the mobs hp bar. You can't win a damage parse if the mob no longer has any hps. I am fully aware that a group heal parse is dependant on how much damage a group takes. Regardless, this does not change the fact that Hibernation means furys are better at healing that damage than wardens. Furys overall are better group healers than us, they have better dps than us, they bring more useful buffs to the raid table than us. These are all disparities that need to be addressed, and saying they are irrelevant means the warden class will continue to languish at the bottom of the priest class ladder.
Only comenting on the group healing power your heal parses show: a Warden on less Overload Heal items then the Fury, ¿ on prolly a tank group, MT or off-tank ? casting more single heals then group heals... and show a Fury on loads Overload Heal items prolly on a dps group on all HPs getting in yellow/Red, chokers.. AEs.. deaths.. and casting more group heals... In a no way this parses prove a fury's better group healing Fury its group healing, and warden its single healing. What i am telling you its dont matter if Fury or Warden plays on that DPS group, ant end fight both gonna heal the exactly same if they got same DPS group, both gonna heal every damage group takes. As far as group healing both druids are almost the same, you need to try play on those "fury" groups as warden and u gonna see what i am saying, its "exactly" the same parses, just different spells. My guild lacking a fury lattelly so i played some raids on those "Fury" dps groups and i can tell you, its the same healing power, pretty much equal when u see a fury or a warden parse heal on same group setups and fights. Its not my logic its just how works On other things like dps buffs etc.. well i gearing/leveling up a fury
Elyssa@Najena wrote: How many other healers were in the Warden's group? (I am assuming the Warden was in the MT group so a Shaman Warding a ton of damage before any healing is needed and a Cleric doing their healing thing as well ) How many healers were in the Fury's group? Apples and oranges, and another example of how parsing distorts the game so badly. I'm not an active full time Raiding person, so I'm not entitled to an opinion of what Wardens lack or do well at endgame in raiding situations. But your parse posts taken in the vaccum you post them without any reference to the make up of the rest of the group mean nothing.
I just betrayed from Fury to warden. I've never been scientific enough to offer raw data and I've not yet done enough as a warden to really begin to comment. My first thoughts were: 1. our emergency heals aren't as good-my imagination or real. I dunno. I just know what I'm used to as I'm running like a bat outta heck from aggro 2. I miss hybernation. I miss having it as a pre-pulling ward. (If cast right, it won't toss aggro on to me). OTOH, it can often be casted and never needed and in power fights can be a waste of mana (or a life saver-heh-when it does trigger). 3. the tree and faerie seem to offer me options I never had before. When I see a bad pull, I slap those babies down and they help me control things while all heck is breaking lose. I like that. 4. Regenerating spores is a nice buff. Me loves it. 5. Warden's AA's seem to respect the fact they are healers. They're not perfect, but not too shabby. Our epic and level 80 spells show a trend to emphasize the Fury DPS angle. The Warden's honor us as healers. 6. I miss my back to the frey spell. If that odd little stun me heal spell is supposed to be the same...it's not 7. I've healed both as a fury and a warden. I feel I could have continued as a fury and been fine but I do feel more confident as a warden. There are some buffs I miss but htere are other furies around to toss those out.
Gitana@Runnyeye wrote: I agree, it looks like a well geared Fury healing his/her butt off while a Warden sits in the MT group getting scraps from the shammy and temp. I have to assume it's the MT group since that's the only place a raid guild would put a Warden. Anywho, having raided as both a Warden and a Fury my experience was that I had an easier time putting the green numbers back in a group as a Warden. Hibernate is a nice spell and I know it's a 10 second recast but it takes 10 seconds to pop after you cast it. In that 10 seconds Tide of healing has healed for 900 and 150 per second for 6 seconds. 1800 give or take in 6 seconds while Hibernate has not even gone off yet. Stacked with Healstorm and backed up with Grove and Faerie I found it faster and easier to fill my group up. Again, that's just my experience having played both classes. Seriously Elyssa, no need to get salty. We all know the Warden class lacks in just about every department imaginable. We all also know that the Fury is a better designed class and brings more to a raid but out of all the things I'd want a developer to look at for my class, group heals is not one of them.
Agree here. And I DO understand the arguement is not which class is better and not whining. I don't want for a second for anyone to think I think we are FINE...I don't. If Elyssa has seen that Fury is a better group healer - fine. I haven't, and don't agree - is all. And I don't think the numbers posted 'prove' it...is all. I completely respect your right to think it or say it. Please respect mine to disagree ::grin::
My druid's name is Silverwolf. I don't care which is better, wardens turn into wolves, so I am a Warden. End of Story. I hope I was helpful in this discussion.
Just want to make a quick statement about this. And to let you know...if it matters...I was a warden up until level 74, then betrayed to fury for a little change and to be more useful in my guilds raids. (yes I said it ) I heal the mage group. In the mage group, the only time someone loses health is when A) there is an AoE, in which case we have someone calling it, I cast hibernate, group HoT, done. B) Someone is one-shotted, can't heal that now can I? If by chance they gain aggro but are not one-shotted, my single target heals keep them alive wonderfully (I love return to the pack) So really...if buffs didn't exist, yeah a warden or a fury would be fine for this group...but I give int to the casters, feral to the troub, and heal them just fine.
Brei@Runnyeye wrote: Since you have experience with both classes - and a significant amount of it: The argument in the thread is more that Fury is a better GROUP healer than Warden - something I don't find true based on the time-honored 'seems like' method. Elyssa posted a parse comparison earlier which 'proved' it ...but several of us think there are mitigating circumstances that make those numbers not so valid. It's less an argument about which class is overall better..that's been hashed out over and over in other threads. In your experience, do you think you heal your group with GROUP heals significantly better than when you were a Warden? And do you think, or know based on your numbers..if you are a better overall group healer than you were then? That's kind of what the arguement is about. I say we are about the same - but done in a different way.
I would agree...it's about the same. As a warden, the HoTs do great to quickly heal up a group. As a fury, I can pre-cast hibernate, which fills up a good part of the groups health bars and my group HoT and the group is topped off. I see no difference in the two classes ability's to heal a group, as long as the person behind the keyboard is playing the class well that is
It’s simple. A fury will cast hibernate knowing an AE is inc. AE hits. Hibernate casts and heals group 1.2k. Fury casts group Hot. Ticks and heals group to full. For a warden. AE hits. Warden casts Tide of Healing and heals group for 1k. Warden casts Group Hot. Ticks and heals group to full. A fury will heal a group FASTER after an AE hits simply because they do not have to waste time casting 2 heals to our one. Hibernate can be precast. Hibernate will also trigger if any group member drops below 15% health. It is an extremely useful heal and we have nothing that compares to it. The heal parse I posted was not meant to be taken in terms of the overall raw numbers healed, but was meant to show how useful a heal Hibernate is. Hibernate accounted for 23% of the heals cast, that is a significant amount of group healing power that we don’t have an equivalent of.
