While in many cases I disagree with Cush's view on things, in this at least she's keeping an open mind . The Vah Shir are NOT gone, they passed along all of the evolutionary and cultural progress they had made to the tribes and people that they were once a part of. The Kerrans we have now are descendants of the Vah Shir that were on Norrath at the time of the Shattering. The Vah Shir ARE Kerrans anyway, so calling them mutts is just silly. This situation isn't like the Human-Erudite evolution, yes the Vah Shir evolved a bit on Luclin. They simply became stronger and smarter and then when the refugees from Luclins destruction returned to the Kerran tribes on Norrath, they passed all of this along to them. The bottom line is that the Kerrans we play as ARE Vah Shir in everything except name. Message Edited by teddyboy420 on 02-26-200609:28 PM
There are pleanty of us out there who wont accept this rhetoric. Vah Shir are not Kerran, and I stand by my statement there must have been enough Vah Shir left planet side, that they wouldnt have had to stoop to mating with what amount to primates compared to them. They Kerren dont resemble Vah Shir unless you count the fact they have tails, fur, and walk upright. To say anything else, would be doing them a grave disservice. I think the fact remains, that people are split on the topic. And untill a dev, or Big Blue comes out and says, "THis is how its going to be." I wont give up hope that one day we may get a chance to once again play what some of us have allways conscidered to be our favorite race. To those of you who like the Kerran, Im not taking anything away from you. Im just a Vah Shir Loyalist through and through.
All it says is that Luclin went Boom wether the Vah Shir survived or not can be read here. and the fate of Shar Vahl is unknown. it obviously survived one trip through space thanks to the Kerran affinity with the wind. I think it could survive another. Message Edited by Zabjade on 02-26-200610:25 AM
Th Vah Shir aren't gone truely. Everquest2.com even says that many VahShir returned to norrath and breeding a strong better kerra race with there ancestors. Which why the kerran aren't short non-muscular cat people in EQ2 and have more of a Vah Shir body structure
What I want to know is what the heck is the difference between the two? The Kerra are much less muscular than the Vah`Shir, that much I can tell, but what else?
The Kerrans in EQlive were scrawny. They stood about 5 feet tall, didn't have very much body mass to them. They were fishers and farmers. Tribalistic in community. They didn't need to concern themselves too much with defending thier secluded village, although they did have thier problems with the Erudites. The Vah Shir were preditors. Large hunting cats. Lynx, Tigers, Lions, Cougars. They stood 7 feet tall with more than enough muscle and body mass to intimidate an opponent. When teleportation back to Luclin was cut off, the Vah Shir who were on Norrath at the time decided to move on with thier lives. They were genetically compatible with the Kerrans, and decided to become a part of thier culture since they had nowhere else to go. I mean it's not like you can easily just go find every last Vah Shir across Norrath and ask them to come build a new city. So they mated with the Kerrans and gave birth to offspring, and live continued on. The genetics of the Vah Shir fused with the Kerrans, making them grow taller and stronger as time went by. Making them closer in appearance to the Vah Shir. But since you can't manipulate genetics, the Kerrans ended up getting some traits as well in thier offspring. They shared both the strengths and weaknesses of both. And the Kerrans we have now are the end result.
So, if there were only a few humans left, yet you knew there were still female humans, instead you would rather run around and mate with chimpanzes or Apes? Thats a tall stretch, the Vah Shir stooping to that level and hoping that they would be geneticaly compatable with the Kerrans. I will steadfast cling to my belief that somewhere, out there, perhaps among the stars, the Vah Shir still exist, true, and glorious in all theyre feline magnificence... That or untill a dev flat out states that they will never come back. After all, this is fantasy, and we can all dream.
Humans and Apes arn't genetically compatible though. That's just the thing. Vah Shir and Kerrans are.
If I may ... It seems that the issue here is the graphical look of the Kerra is more in question than the history. For another glimpse into the lore of the Kerra/Vah Shir, may I suggest taking a trip to your local Mage Tower and pick up the History of the Kerra? Interesting lore. I would post it here, but I don't want to say any part wrong, and it may just surprise you.
My point is this, obviously there were still male and female Vah Shir running around. What Vah Shir in his right mind would ever stoop to such levels as to actually contemplate mating with a Kerra? For those of us who are stout and devout lovers of the Vah Shir would never dream of it. We hold fast to the belief that one day we will get a chance to play our most loved class once again.
No offense taken, but kettle meet pot. I dont agree with your point and you dont agree with mine. I dont plan on giving in any time soon.
In my opinion it would be just like a Erudite mating with a human. Or it would be like a human mating with a barbarian...
If there were male and female Vah Shir running around, there would need to be a fairly considerable amount running around lest they begin to share the same parentage... Would you rather that the few Vah Shir had mated solely with each other, eventually resulting in an defunct inbred race?
Were not talking about one or two running around, and since there isnt anything written in stone we cant say for sure how many survived, but if you look at EQ1 there was probably a very substantial number planet side when the moon took a vacation. Either way none of this is the point what so ever. The real issue here is that many of us would like our Vah Shir to be a playable race. The Froglock were brought back, so its not like were asking for a miracle here. I dont know why sony descided to take away, not only a great race but also the BM class, but they did. I really do not understand why people find it so difficult to understand that some of us will not accept the Kerran as a substitute for the Vah Shir. Last but not least, its a magical world where nearly anything could happen. Hell, the Gnomes and goblins could get togethor and build a time machine to go back and rescue the Vah Shir population, or make a magical portal to do the same. Trying to equate this with real life scenarios wont fit. You can quote EQ lore till your blue in the face, but if the Devs want to do something they can and will. And since blue hasnt stepped in and said definatlively that they wont ever be back, then we can hope.
You keep saying that "They brought back Frogloks" you seem to forget that they were a race that was promised at launch. A race that had to be unlocked to play. So there was really nothing to add. Though they did have to fix the quest line so it could actually be completed, but that was the case with lots of end game stuff promised at launch. I agree that the Kerran models are quite un-cat like in the face. I agree that I like the looks of the original Vah Shir models from EQI. I think you will be quite disappointed if they ever allow us back on the moon with what they do the VahShir. I think you would find that they would have the same flat faced models that the Kerran's have. I think that the art dept decided to go with a more "human" like face that was easier to make look different with the facial sliders, than a truely cat face could. Which is why we are stuck with our Flat faced Kerrans. I was actually kind of hopeful that SOGA would include better Kerran models, of course they didn't update those models. BTW I wouldn't discount what love is capable of. I mean there is a bit in the lore of a Teir'dal girl with her human lover, just before the luclin exploded. Now most people would say that it would be impossible for Teir'dal to love anyone, let alone a human who is worth as much as cattle to a Teir'dal. So it wouldn't be too far out of the question for Vah Shir males and females to find themselves in love with a peaceful kerran. You assume an attitude about the Vah Shir that I don't believe they would have toward the Kerran. Vah Shir know that they are the decendents of the Kerren, they probably see themselves as a lost tribe of Kerrans. So again getting together with a Kerran would be quite ok. Also, just because you don't officially know of any Human-Barbarian or Human-Erudite half breeds, don't mean they don't or couldn't exist. I would imagine that the offspring of such a cross would resemble one or the other. Though I don't beleive that Human-Erudite crosses are possible anymore with the latest evolution of the Erudite species. Of course that is just my opinion YMMV Brannwyn
Everyone puts this noble they decided to go mate with the keran outlook. phssst, they're cats, keran female was in heat a vah shir male was standing downwind, nuff said.
Brought back or promised is a mute point as far as Im conscerned. Eq1 Fans who loved the Frogs, got the frogs along with every other race with the notable exception of the Vah Shir. Its obvious that they went for the more human looking Kerran as compared to the true feline like look of the Vah Shir, so I wont dispute that at all. Since we cannot say with any certainty how the Vah Shir reacted to the whole "oh great,this is what we get to mate with", I can only post my personal reaction which Im hopefull isnt shared by myself alone. To say Im disapointed is an understatement. I never posted that other races couldnt intermingle, I have tried to keep my eye on the ball so to speak. To be honest if an expansion was released and we finally saw what has become of the Vah Shir and they suddenly all look like kerrans, I will probably cancel my account that same day. As I said in the beginning, my first, and most loved Charactor was Gustov Longshanks, Shaman... A true Vah Shir. Im sure that others feel as strongly about theyre Kerrans as well, and I wont take anything from them.
