victer wrote: Btw I am glad I had this conversation, as now i know I can use my offensive stance alot more when tanking even con or lesser mobs. As uncontested avodence doesnt really matter all that much against them. It also explains why I can tank x 2's that con less them me pretty easily.
why is this argument in the zerker forums anyways? trolling? no, trolling would be coming here and trying to stir up some crap...
Victer@Oasis wrote: This part is, in fact, not true, though as far as I can see most of what you said is accurate. Where's Karsgaar? He tanks 90% of VP in offensive stance. The mechanic of contested v. uncontested avoidence makes the difference in survivability far less than you would think. Zerkers in offensive stance don't lose any shield block or riposte or any other uncontested avoidance in offensive stance, but the difference in mob level plus any theoretical accuracy modifiers for epics makes your contested avoidance far less effective than it would be against white con mobs. But your ability to even hit a level 86 mob is hampered in defensive stance, hence, less DPS, crappy aggro control, rampaging mob, dead raid. And there's a comment relevant to berserkers
Zebedee@Antonia Bayle wrote: your right ive tanked phara dar (who is lvl 87) with buckler and in o stance also. I was more hinting at the fact that tanks arent tanking hard hitting high lvl mobs in o stance. If anyone tanks Tangrin or even druusk in o stance i'd be very very suprised. the only thing that you raelly loose in d stance is +skills but thats easly replaced with a warden
Zebedee@Antonia Bayle wrote: Yep, Zeb is right- probably because he's repeating something I told him (he's my RL brother and he has a level 80 Zerker also). The only time I go into defensive stance is when my health is spikey, I get a big damage spike and Adrenaline isn't up, or if the mob is stone-skinning or something and there's no DPS going on. The difference for me with full MT buffs between O-stance and D-stance is about....maybe 2-3% avoidance- CONTESTED avoidance- and about the same amount of mit. The reason is, that with full MT raid buffs and my temp buffs going, I'm so far into diminishing returns for contested avoidance and Mit, that the difference in stances is minimal. However, the difference in weapon skills when fighting lvl 86+ mobs is huge since my hit rate goes into the toilet and aggro starts bouncing around if I forget to go back into O-stance. Now, you WON'T catch me tanking VP with Harbinger of Malcontent instead of Virtue's Guard because the difference in uncontested block is pretty hefty. EDIT since you typed while I was responding: My guild doesn't do contested, but I do tank Druushk in O-stance- switching to D-stance if my health is unstable or I get a big spike like I said above. I make sure I'm in Defensive when the fear is going to hit and Sanctuary isn't up also. The rest of the time I'm in O-stance.
i havent had the chance to tank druusk yet but i can totally see myself doing the same thing with bounceing off and on with the stances. Actually i have yet to tank anything that i had to switch to d stance for longer then o stance. But i think we both agree that when it isnt going right if you stay in o stance for too long you are causeing your healers more greef then anything. D stance also raises mit even tho its not substantial it still helps. And if youve already generated enough agro in o stance your doing your healers a favor for switching to d stance for a while.
back on topic for tower shields I have yet to fight anything that needs me to switch to tower in this expantion. But im sure if i had to fight tangrin or maybe even byzola i probly would need to switch. As far as agro control yes it is alot tougher to hold agro in tower because your not parseing the same. However correct me if im wrong but if you gave me a super awsome MT hate grp i dont think it will be too hard to hold hate with a tower. Zerk/templer/defiler/dirge/coercer/swash and you should be able to hold everything if the swash puts out alot of hate and has his mythical. For the average zerker i wouldnt even worry about carrying a tower in your bags. But i wouldnt totally forget about tower shields. Try to make sure you get a good one. They change the mechanics of this game alot and towershield might be viable sometime in the future. As of right now? Keep your buckler on.
Victer@Oasis wrote: Yeah, the difference isn't huge, but if the fight is going badly you're just asking for trouble staying in O-stance since if you're about to die every little bit helps. I know on Druushk I can get away with D-stance longer then on most fights since we have a scout heavy raid force and they're mostly DPSing the adds or doing ranged attacks. If I stay in D-stance for too long though I'm in danger of one of the mages ripping and moving the mob so the whole raid has to adjust position so I still stay in O-stance for the majority of the fight.
Karsgaar@Antonia Bayle wrote: yep good to see that there are still intelligent zerkers left in the world!
Um yeah, like I said, because sheild block uncontested and uncontested avoidence is completely overpowered in this game, you tank in your offensive stance almost all the time. Which is the reason you do more dps then brawlers, I have to use my defensive stance when I am tanking, even in heroic content, (unless it cons lower then me) or I get destroyed, my dps goes to crap when in defensive. So lets lay that myth of superior brawler dps to rest to, cause its only superior when we are not tanking.
evilgamer wrote: are you kidding!, i have my monk tanking almost all the avatars and tangrin daily, while doing superior dps, i see soandso tries to slash Auron, but monk Parries!, soandso tries to crush Auron, but monk Deflects! oh wait, thats not what your complaining about is it...
evilgamer wrote: Warriors do more dammage tanking rather then not tanking. So this is how it is. While tanking warriors win. While not tanking brawlers win. Whats the problem? There are plenty of brawlers tanking certain raids... just because YOU cant doesnt mean that the class is screwed. We have a monk in our raid that can tank very very well and I bet he tanks better then some MT warriors out there. And in fact there are more brawlers able to tank raids then SK's can. And there is even brawlers that tank better then some warriors! It all comes down to the player and how he plays his class. Class wise the people that have the most hurt is SK's. What are you doing in this thread anyway? All youve been trying to do is say that brawlers (who were NEVER designed to be able to tank everything in the game) are on the low end of the stick of tanking but you are compareing them to the classes that were designed to be the end game tanks. You sir seem to want everything. If you want to tank all the time make a pure tank class. If you want to tank some of the time and dps the rest of the time keep how your going. But the notion that the whole mechanics of the game need to change just so that you feel more comfortable in your class is ridiculas. Do brawlers need love? Sure they do. But arguably so does everyone else other then gaurdians. Especially the SK's. But they are also not asking for game wide mechanic changes.
Dont tell me how i do my dammage ive been playing this game as this charachter for almost 5 years you have barley played a year. I told you that warriors do more dammage while tanking. Dont tell me you know otherwise because you dont. Brawlers do more DPS then warriors(even when we are tanking and doing the most possible). Dont tell me they dont cause they do. You dont even know what you want. Yesterday you wanted everyone to have uncontested avoid... now you want no one to have it. Brawlers were never meant to tank everything. Get over it! Play and learn to DPS higher then the warriors in your guild cause it looks like your not doing a very good job at it right now. I dont know why i keep replying to you. So Im just gonna stop. Go away and learn the game a bit more. I'm done with you.
Theoritacally Warriors do more damage tanking vs not tanking. When we are not stunned, stifled, mezzed, charmed, Feared, reposited. It we can go a whole fight without that then yes we do more dmg tanking vs not. But Brawler are going upwards towards teir 1 dps, a good brawler is anyways. The only way a Zerker will ever touch that is in a multi-mob encounter and how many of those are there. Out Monk sits at 51% Mit and 81% avoidance in raid setup. On top of doing 5-7k dmg and having self heals/FD/and deaggro. You complain about Warrior try learning your own classes potential.
Zhon@Lucan DLere wrote: Well in a raid set up I am hitting 52% mit and 76% avoid with 1 piece of raid gear. That is not that impressive to be honest. Besides you against high con mobs your actual avoidence will be higher then his because your uncontested is much higher. As far as zerker parses. 6.2K zonewide is pretty good considering the monk from the same guild only hits 7k. http://www.eq2flames.com/berserkers...onewides-6.html
Lyger@Mistmoore wrote: Well that is true to a certain extent. But its undeniable that spell hit rates, melee hit rates, contested avoidence rates and mitigation all go down, as mobs level rises. This is verifiable to anyone who runs ACT. I am just glad I finally got some straight info on uncontested avoidence, that is verifiable, lol that it came from the zerker board and not the monk.
