ToV heroic missions/daily/weekly need a redesign!

If you cannot beat the last name for a long while anybody can rage quit it.

not being able to kill the last name is a different issue

In pugs it's always a risk

“Yes, risk taking is inherently failure-prone. Otherwise, it would be called sure-thing-taking.”
~ Jim McMahon

And the point of your post is?

that is not the issue here. the point is that the quests in their current form make is very hard to get replacements when somebody leaves. This is bad, because it forces players to only group with people they know very well.

Also, please can we get over this lame trend that every discussion includes comments implying that people either can't play their class or generally suck, thanks.

That's going to be hard because a number of times it's been proven that someone raging on a group usually means:
- The rager was bad at playing their character and performing at sub-par levels.
- There is someone in the group performing at sub-par levels usually a Tank or Healer.
- The group simply is unable to kill a boss given the current set up.

Most commonly scenario 1 or 2 is true. Inevitably someone will assume that Failure of a Group stems from poor gameplay. Ultimately it's either Gear or Skill that's lacking in a Group Scenario to cause a Failure. In the case of these failures though what the OP is saying is that it is hard to find a replacement due to the Quest being impossible to complete. This is a new problem.

In the past, the Final Boss still dropped Armor, Jewelry or Updated a Quest. Currently he will drop:
- Unwanted Armor in almost all scenarios.
- Usually unwanted Jewelry unless an Uncommon Drops, even then they are semi-common.

Let's look at the Past, they say one can learn the best lessons from the Past.

Destiny of Velious
Daily Mission had you clicking items in zones.
- Click Barrels in the zone for Ale Samples (Spire)
- Slay 20 Shardhammers (Ascent)
- Banish 5 Dwarven Spirits (Pools)
- Slay 5 Facilitarians (Shadow Corridors)

Those are just a few but all DoV Missions revolved around Clickies and Trash Killing not bosses. This ensured that if you failed on the Last Boss you would still get your Tokens (Primal Velium Shards)

Sentinels Fate
- Slay 12 Enchanted Tombs (Library)
- 6 Terrors, 6 Horrors and Homunculus (2nd to last boss in Abandoned Labs)
- Kill Tallonite Necron-Amah (non-final boss) and 6 Blood Deamons (Vig-Rescue)
- Slay 5 Malefic Extrusions and Crag (2nd to Last Boss in Outer Vaults)

So DoV followed what SF did, you slay some trash or find some Clickies and the Quest finishes before the Last Boss.

The Shadow Odyssey
- Defeat Bricktop (3rd to last boss in Nu'Roga)
- Search for Sources of Tears and close them (Scion of Ice)
- Find pieces of the Eternal Prism (Crucible)

TSO was very oriented around Clickies with some boss-quests. Again all parts were finished prior to the boss.


So in ToV, the only reason you have to kill the last boss is unlike the three expansions before it the Quest is directly linked to the Armor which means it's directly linked to the rate at which players acquire gear and thus exhaust content. TSO thru DoV had Lockout Timers to control the rate at which content was consumed and had enough content each expansion in terms of Zones and Quests to keep players occupied. So is it really the Crates that are the problem or is it how loot is being distributed that's the real problem?

Yes.

In previous expansions you had problems finding people to come into a group late because they'd missed the mission quest updates and by coming in they'd get a timer that'd block them from coming back in to get the missed updates. That made it hard to find people to replace someone who'd quit. It also caused problems finding people to help you with instances, because they had a long-running timer from their own run that prevented them from entering your instance. The current system still has the first problem, but with the mechanics allowing for relatively short timers while still preventing people from getting multiple drops from every zone every day (yes there apparently are people obsessed enough to do that) the second's been addressed. I won't complain too loudly about that.

The three scenarios you outlined are why I don't do PUGs anymore. I had too many problems with the first two scenarios, and for the third with a known group we've got a good handle on what we can take and what we can't and we can usually arrange to have the same group together tomorrow or the next day to take a stab at cracking the problem fight before we reset the zone. It's probably not what the OP wants to hear, but "Find a good guild or a solid group you can run with regularly, so you aren't so dependent on PUGs.".

Not only pugs, I know quite a few ragequitters in guilds that I have been in over the years and they still play. And I still wont ever group with em again lol

So true

@Estred,

Very good outline. And that is why I support OP proposal to adjust mission reqs (crate & etyma missions) to only to kill the last boss in the zone. It would have nothing to do with difficulty reduction like few are trying to accuse OP here and who apparently cannot read. Difficulty of run is the same. Reqs would change from two bosses to one. The end boss.

As I ve already repeated probably 10 times. To get to a last boss a group in ToV still needs to kill every name anyway. But it will help to solve the issue of replacing a leaving group player. No matter what reasons for quiting are.

I would think that Thomas Edison's quote would fit better in this thread.
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it comes dressed in overalls and looks like work."
-- Thomas Edison

since you like them, here's one for you
“It's better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than open it and remove all doubt”

― Mark Twain

If someone is looking for a replacement for anything for any group, and I don't know you. I'm not even thinking twice about joining, since it's most likely a fail group and I have no way of knowing why they left. Most of the time it's either the tank can not hold aggro/live or the healer can't heal....and I rather not take the chance.

How often are you having somebody 'rage quit' right before the last mob of a zone that you see this as a huge problem that requires a further revamp of the quests?
I prefer to group with people I know, but I've done my share of pugs and never had somebody quit right before the last boss. Even in the groups that limped, sometimes badly.

It doesn't matter what you believe or don't. Why are you stuck at rage quit notion?. People may leave groups in case of emergency, power loss and so on.
The fact is it happens. Think a bit out of your box.

I never said I doubted it happened. I don't TOTALLY lack imagination
My 'doubt' is that it happens so often that it justifies redoing the quests even more then they already have (when they dropped the trash requirement). It is my opinion that there are better places for SoE to spend it's limited man-power resources then changing quests to deal with the few times people bail (for whatever reason) at the last mob of a ToV zone.

lol. is this a mental disorder of some MMO players that they FEAR the Devs are spending time on anything other than what YOU want? Besides, I suppose the amount of time to change this would be like 5 minutes for 1 guy.

*raised eyebrow* There are lots of things the devs (correctly) spend time on that I have zero interest in. (I have absolutely no interest in PvP, for instance.)

once. wasn't my group either, just a pug I joined, don't know if he ragequit, he was just gone, probably realized he was too bad as a healer. funny was, a dps guy was afk for 10 minutes during another boss fight, cause he had to rub his neighbors back - some medical thing he said.
I'd even feel bad about asking friends to help out because of the quest design, cause they wouldn't get their loot box.

Is that normal now in ToV that an SK outparses a warden in heals? I don't know, but I think that's a bad sign for the healer, or?