Oh no, don't worry about debuffs. You won't even need them at higher levels. If the brawler hardly ever gets hit, there is no need for anything really except to re-ward once in a while. Right now, Agility > Damage Mitigation at 40+. You will really see the difference.
So now not only are you complaining about how you feel our class sucks, your complaining about how you feel it will suck in the future? I give up. good luck to all of you.
I've never once said our class sucks, nor have I once complained. Show me where I did and I'll eat my foot. Agility is going to get tuned because people that are getting Agi over 300 are not getting hit AT ALL! People are using Swashbucklers to tank boss mobs because some are doing it better than plate tanks. Alot of this has to do with Bards being able to stack some Agi songs. Dude if you look around a little you'll find this all over the place.
Acutely, I mistook you for Karlace, sorry. I read most of your posts and you do seem to post balanced responses. But just to see if I can get you to at least take a bite out of your foot, here are a few quotes from you... “Thanks to this analysis and discussion, it's becoming abundantly clear that Wards need to be looked at. If you want to bury your head in the sand and go on about your merry way, hey all the power to you. It's all about having fun in the end and if you're having fun that's all that matters. But hopefully what goes on here will help make the class better which benefits everyone.†“Ahh I thought Cleric reactives suffered from the same limitation. Well that just makes this worse. It solidifies the argument that Wards are at a severe disadvantage to the other Priest class specific heals.â€
Both of those quotes are issues with wards, which we have been discussing since the game launched (some even prelaunch/beta period). Just because I, and many others in the mystic community, feel that wards need some tuning, does not mean we think mystics suck. I feel that mystics make a great contribution to any group. We really shine when there is another healer to main heal allowing us to play backup and utility, but that is not what our primary purpose is suppose to be. We are of the priest archetype and thus should be healers first and foremost, however as things are right now, we are no where near as efficient as a druid or cleric playing the main or sole healer role.
ok, so it's a mana use issue. After I read this, I thought to myself: Have I ever been the reason the party holds on the next mob due to mana? Usualy no. Most of the time we are waiting on the DPS classes for regain there mana. Have I ever had a party die when I felt another healing class would have saved them? No. Have I ever not been turned down for a group due to my class? (a mesure of comunity perception of Mystic's) No. Unless I start to feel the answer to any of those questions is yes, I don't care about numbers, or if something is broke. But that's just me.
You cannot answer that question honestly, because people who may or may not turn you down based on class simply won't ask you. You never see the "rejects" because you are never contacted. Hey, look, if you are happy with your Mystic, great. Enjoy. These discussions clearly have no impact on you. Because things work for you, please, go enjoy the game. Those of us here who feel underpowered are doing our best to put a quantifiable value on it. We "feel" underpowered, we want to know why that may be. We do the numerical analysis and logical comparison to find those answers. We're starting to reap some rewards of those investigations, and they lead to a certain conclusion. Just because things "work" for you does not invalidate those conclusions. It merely shows that, as we have said, the problems are not insurmountable or debilitating. If you wish to debate those conclusions, it is necessary to bring evidence to the contrary. So far, no one has done that.
Urm... I'm level 30 now, and most of the fallen giants are green ^^ group to me. I solo there, pull with slow, then proceed to melee with HO-miasma-coldfire. I don't even ward myself when I do that. There is no need to. Sometimes I try a blue^^, and it gets dicey, and end the fight with no-power, and some health left. That said, when I duo with my level 30 guardian friend there, he does not even need to be healed or warded either. There is a big difference between green^^ and yellow^^/orange^^ mobs. The greenies are wimpies. Here's what I typically do on the group con: green^^: just slow, dot, dot. blue^^: ward, slow, dot, dot. white^^: ward, ward, slow, debuff. yellow^^: ward, ward, group-ward, slow, debuff, repeat. orange^^: ward, ward, group-ward, slow, debuff, hit quick/slow heal depending on situation, re-ward and repeat. To me, this is basically how the rest of EQ2 will pan out to be like, and all group encounters are starting to look "the same" to me. There's nothing special about healing the tank, or any strategy involved. It's all textbook, and the same "template" can be used on different mobs, i.e., yellow^^ goblins are the same as yellow^^ orcs, etc. I suspect that the sameness of all the encounters is what's going to put me off this game. There's no skill involved. It's not like in EQ, you can VP (root-park) a mob away from the tank, or help with the positioning of the mobs with dogdog (and his pals). A mystic here can do very little else. Maybe my days of a mystic or even EQ2 are numbered. -NH Message Edited by Noosehunter on 01-24-2005 12:15 PM
Do keep in mind that it took EQ 4 or 5 years for fights to become "complex" as you describe. You're right, Shaman lost some of their "jack of all trades" abilities. We gained in other areas. Each class is the same, they have some things that they do very well, and others that they do poorly or not at all. Crowd control is certainly not something Shaman do anymore, and in fact is a very limited, though important ability possessed by only a few. If you want to try your hand at "utility" or perhaps "crowd control" I'd recommend a Bard or Enchanter respectively. A good Bard is priceless for utility and a GOOD chanter can really take a bad situation and save it. To each their own of course.
Thanks you remembered me :smileyvery-happy: Anyway when compareds to how a druid or cleric can heal, yes a mystic leaves some to be desired. All I want is what was stated in the darn game. Message Edited by Karlace on 01-24-2005 03:20 PM
Sorry to dredge this up, but I have been on travel. At lvl 31, I was fighting in EL last night. Full group (level 29-32's), we were killing lvl 36 or 35 great bir bears or whatever there called. OJ group mobs. If I didn't throw my 2 debuffs the tank would take some major damage. With the two debuffs we could finish the encounter without him needing to be healed or warded. I could be the only healer, and only throw 2 spells every 60 seconds. Hard to beat that.
I know I have never had to spend more then 2 minutes looking for a group. "/ooc lvl x Mystic LFG" gets me a group in usually less then 30 seconds. 5-6 times a night I get random people asking if I would like to group (I never use the LFG flag). So my guess is we are well liked, on my server anyway. Not true. If other players come here and read these treads without any rebuttal from people like me, they are going to think Mystic's are broke, and that is not the case at all. One of two things is true: The class is broke. or Your perception of the class is incorrect. I feel the second is the case. I can not help you see my point of view without open debate in these forums. Leaving these threads unchecked I feel does an injustice to the class.
And like wise if people coem here and only see your posts they may think the class is perfect which is not true. One of 2 thing is true: The class is broke or your perception of how the class is, is off. i think the second is the case. I expect alot more out of this class called mystics then to watch my other healer classes out preform without breaking a sweat.
There not outperforming you, they are just doing it with less mouse clicks/key strokes. So yea, it's more work to be a Mystic. But played well it's the same outcome.
See the difference in opinion here is Jerhaa doesn't care about efficiency. When I say efficiency I mean the amount of power it costs for us to get the job done vs. other Priests. Jerhaa has said before that if the group is alive when the encounter is dead then we performed just as well as another Priest. If we used more Power to get the job done, the added downtime to regen that power back isn't all that bad with good drink and barely noticable. I'm sure you'd agree that "more clicks/key strokes" = more power consumption right? But this is where I disagree with you Jerhaa and where I think your viewpoint has some flaws. Yes at the end of the day, what matters is if the group is alive vs. dead. But what about those fights where everyone in the group uses every ounce of their power, and that last heal or ward makes the difference? If it didn't cost more power for me to get the job done then that last heal might have saved the day. Or when you get several resists with Slow or Delusion? Each cast costs more power, and while I wait for the recast timer to expire I'm having to cast more heals since the target isn't slowed or debuffed. If a Shaman is required to use his/her debuffs in order to be on equal footing with other Priests, then Shaman heals should cost less power per HP point healed or warded ... but they don't. In fact in many cases our heals cost MORE power per HP point healed. I personally feel efficiency is just as important as the ability to get the job done, and being inefficient can be just as damaging to class perception.
I'm not called Big Dave for nothing. I went skiing with 10 friends last week. I'm not very good - they are much better - but we still had good fun. Having said that, I happily sat out a few runs so they could go stretch there legs and ski to their ability. Sometimes, pushing yourself to the edge of your ability IS what is fun. As a mystic, I am finding myself to be the 'slow skier'. Sure, I can ski and have fun with my group, but I am holding them back from the fun to be achieved in stretching themselves and performing at a peak. They are looking at those black runs or thinking of doing 10 blue runs in a row and then looking at me and sighing and skiing on with me on the green (easy) runs. I don't like to feel I'm holding back my friends all the time. And with people we don't know, eventually, us 'slow skiers' are going to find it harder getting into a group, because maybe they aren't the kind that can have fun skiing slowly. Ok, now that's an example that overstates the case, but I hope it helps folks understand. "To all mystics that think we are not underpowered": Good for you, but quit calling the rest of us "whiners", ok? We just want to ski the same runs as our friends. Message Edited by BigDave on 02-02-2005 04:37 AM
To extend that logic, what about those fights where the group wipes with the mob at less than 25% because we just flat ran out of power . . . perhaps that fight is a win with a Cleric or Druid due to their increased efficiency.
