I am bringing to light many of the problems with gaurdians on the battleground forums. Keep in mind the bg forums are the most looked into by the devs atm. Get there and help the cause. We all know gaurdians need love. We are the true pure tank. We need to all help get our place back as the elite among tanks. No more hybrids taking our jobs as mt.
Shorcon wrote: Your posts are truly amusing. In EQ2 all tanks are viable. There are not 'true tanks' or 'elite tanks'. That is not how the game was, nor will ever be, designed. There are some games that that, Vanguard comes to mind, EQ1 comes to mind, some other games come to mind. For instance, in EQ1, the Warrior was the 'true' tank, but he couldn't offtank ANYTHING, because his hate was TERRIBLE in comparison to a paladin/sk. They also did VERY low damage. If you want to do 1/10th of my DPS, and 1/20th of my hate, sure, you can gain in defensive abilitys by 15% over me. That's how it was during the EQ1 era. Stop trying to get Guardians to be the only viable maintank, it just isn't going to happen. You are already the IDEAL maintank, but you should not try to become the only VIABLE maintank.
Shorcon wrote: The problem, though, is that our problems as a Battlegrounds tank are the polar opposite from any problems we have as a Raid tank. In BGs we probably have the greatest capability of any tank to taunt lock entire groups, but survivability not much better than a scout (and, admittedly, very poor DPS compared to other tanks). In Raids the most commonly expressed problem is aggro generation capability compared to other tanksif we wish to maintain similar survivabilities to Crusaders (Thanks to the Crusader Sword+Board = Warrior Dual Wield). Trying to get help is all fine and good, but I don't want to see Tower of Stone turned into a 9k ward, ok?
Darkonx wrote: Wrong. Original eq2 and dof and even kos were this way. Are you new to the game? Pure/hybrid/dps has always been a part of eq2. Don't call me noob when you yourself are making very noob statements. Warrior has by definition been the pure tank. Crusader hybrid able to dps heal and tank. Sk was a better dps class and pali better healer in the hybrid tank back in the day. Dps brawlers were not even thought of as true dps during all of the above mentioned expacs. They for the longest time were the most under used under achieving tanks in the game. It's ok to be new dark. I remember the long fight sk's put up to get themselfs into the tanking roll they to this day are king of. I now offtank for an sk with my guard. I cant hold multiple mob enc's like he can as our raids put heavy heat on the tanks limits. I can however easily snap loose mobs and easily keep them until the mt gets it back. I love how people say guardians are the king of raid guilds worldwide. They must not have crusaders in the raid. Or they must force the poor crusaders to **** out. We should all be able to push limits while raiding and sk's cant unless they are mt. Guardians can taunt all out after a sk has agro for a few seconds and will never pull the mob without snaps. I am fully mastered and so is the sk. Not only is the sk a better agro magnet, he can parse serious heals and dps. The guardian cant do either. I dont care that sk is the bomb. I care that guardians are not even comparable anymore. I am so tired of the poor criticizm I recieve by posting. Many people seem to have disagreement issues and will disagree with anything just to say they disagree. When I was recruited into the guild I am now in the concern was if I could hold agro over the sk class. They would have prefered an sk over guard. I have MT'd for years and they knew I could do it if anyone could. I humbly state I cannot out tank a sk. They have easy button snaps for multiple mobs that guardians do not. We have reinforce followed by 2 or if specd 3 ae's. I have to chase loose mobs they dont. I have to have the mobs hitting me to keep agro they dont. I find myself burning snaps quiker than I should in raid due to the fact that the raid is used to sk mt agro gains. I would have to hold the mob for a time to actualy affectively tank which would in effect kill our parse. Sk can pull and allow the raid to dps as soon as the mob moves with very little fear of wipe. If a multiple encounter is loos after my enc taunt I am in serious trouble and we might wipe.
What are the problems? Sentry watch your healer, don't get seperated and totally dominate from what I've seen so far. Our group taunt has a crazy refresh on it relative to the other tanks, we have 4 taunts two single and two group, 1 passive that rocks and then kick in a reinforcement here and there. Oh not to mention an adornment to add yet more threat to our blue aoe. Are you running with ward gear and life procs? I've seen a guard hit 2250hps on a heal parse wearing alot of battleground gear in PVE (however some of these procs are getting nerfed coming up). Whats your battleground gear like? Toughness and ward procs makes a huge difference. I'm sorry man the problems I've seen is people running off from their healer/group constantly and going down faster than a drunk prom date. I've seen this happen to all tanks no matter what the class. If you want to run in and grab the flag spec reflexes or something, or better yet take your group inside the base kill everyone and take the flag . The primary strat I use when going into these battlegrounds is one thing, 'meatshield' I don't care about dps, my only objective is to get people to hit me, mitigate the damage and tbh I think guards are the most effective at this. Out of the 4 tanks I run (pally, SK, monk), I enjoy the guard the most as we have a lot of take the hit for the other person type stuff and one the fastest taunt reuses.
Shorcon wrote: Moorgard wrote: snippet of a 2005 post by Moorgard from: http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...;topic_id=80499 I could find more that are even older I'm sure if I bothered enough. There is a reason why they changed it so that guards weren't the alpha and the omega of all the fighters in all situations. It's not what they wanted. The intent in this game has reportedly always been that all the fighters could tank in a relatively equal manner in the big picture but that some were better suited in some situations than others. In reality, I don't think that has really ever been true although it is probably more true today than ever before. The one constant has been guards have pretty much always been considered the best raid MT. Outside of that, virtually everything has come and gone amongst the fighters over time with revamps, nerfs, changes, processes, AAs, etc. Oh, and maybe you could argue that brawlers have always been screwed. (not so much now?) You'd run into less flack and negative responses if you'd worry more about just making sure guards have the tools they need in PVE and PVP and less of: Shorcon wrote: P.S. Couple familiar names in that old thread. Some things never change apparently. The fight for class balance is never ending.
Toesmash@Oasis wrote: My bg gear is complete. I also after the nerf switched to the heal proc gear due to no longer gettin resists from the former. I sentry watch on my healer and its master. I guess we are going back to the good ole you are the only tank that needs a healer and thats fine bs. oih. I am reflex spec and i also am in the bg for nothing but protection to the dps. I agree we are sick against melee. We are creampuff against magic. Others are not. I have seen bruisers parse close to top dps/heals and run with whole raids beating on them from one side of the map to the other with the flag. I have seen sk's in an unkillable state going 50+ and 0 with the same dps/heal parse. I have never ever seen a guardian go into any battleground and go with under 5 deaths. I still manage to get 2 to 3 times kills over deaths as I am verbal in bg and let people know I will taunt so long as I have a taunt up. They ussualy feed off that till I die. I am not in need of the good ole L2P theme. I need change for the guardian. I appologize to all the crus/brawl/zerks for making the statement of pure tank. It's not a new term. It was coined early on in the release of eq2. It has now become offensive I see. I still strongly disagree with anyone who says tanking is situational. BS. SK is the top tank atm. To all who say that the tanking ladder was always intended to be as it is now you are nuts. The character description is still the same as day one. There is a tradeoff for crusaders to heal dps. There is a tradeoff for brawlers to high end dps. There is a tradeoff for guardians to hold agro.
