So your Ranger is usually in the top 5? Behind who? The Assassin, Wizzy, Conjy, Brig and then the Ranger closely followed by the Swashy?? A better question Sirlutt would be, what kind of numbers are the top 5 putting out? I can pretty much assure that your Brigand will at the very least keep up with your Ranger when in the same group. Switch those groups around a bit, and he'll be out DPSing your ranger consistantly.
its highly subjective.. depends on alot of things .. however .. our top 5 changes up pretty regular.. its not a set order.. sometimes i top it.. sometimes the conj, or wiz or ranger.. and usually the top 5 are 1200-2000 .. again highly subjective.. depends what we are fighting.. what groups are.. what timers are up. Our Brig does really well and yeah he prolyl does out DPS the ranger as much as anyone else.
Thank god for assassins ... without them to push me, i would have been content to do play at 80-90% efficiency. Now, i've got to really work to 100% to get close to them. Granted, they are ~20% better then us for DPS. Thats assuming everything is on a equal footing. However, there's no chance an assassin will get close to me in parse unless they are at least 75% both mastered/fabled. Still, on this basis alone rangers do need some minor adjustments to reach their level. In my personal experiences, i can't comment on conjurers since we don't have a true raid conjurer to compare with in T7. However, i've noticed Ishbu's parses, and i know there's no way i can reach his parse range. (although, i'm basing this from only 1 parse where he posted 1900 zone wide for Lyceum ... in itself which is interesting, since none of Disso scouts parsed over 1500 on that occassion .... which i know they are capable of (as are rangers)). In our raids, after our main raid assassin (not counting conjurers), the necro's, wizards, rogues and myself (ranger) all jostle for the next places (warlocks need some/fixing from SOE). Our necros and wizards are 95% mastered and fully fabled, while the rogues vary from 70-80% mastered, but fully fabled. It doesnt matter who comes 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th .. as it reguarly changes from 1 encounter to the next. Now, when we look at the raid parse for the whole raid, i come out 2nd everytime only behind the main assassin. Necro, wizards, rogues and the other assassins make up the next places. For the most part, this is how the arrangement should be, and i know SOE are slowly working to achieve a system where no 1 class dominates DPS, but is shared by several classes which is conditional upon solo, group, raid and encounter. I'm 1 of the best equiped rangers gamewide, fully mastered (+2 months), 80% fabled, know my class extremely well. Positioned in a good dps group for a raid, without DPS being built around me, i can reguarly parse: Lyceum: 1400-1600 zone wide. Labs: 1350-1450 zone wide. I've seen 1 other ranger cross server, in the same parse range, and 2 other rangers cross server, who are approaching these numbers (they aren't fully geared up yet). When i know i'm doing these numbers, i know rangers are still T1 DPS. It isn't easy though, you have got to be tweaked, put in 100% effort ... and understand the subtle mechanics to optimise your DPS. One last thing, SOE do track combat data, extensively. They know the averages and they know the low and high end ranger dps numbers. When they know that the best rangers can still parse at the level i've indicated, they know we aren't broken, as do i, as does my guild, and as do a few others. They aren't about to make any real changes to a class while the best rangers are still putting up great numbers, and more importantly while the AVG BASE number accross all situations is still decent. Our DPS is more then fine ... which is different from saying our DPS is fine as it is. We need some minor changes in order to reach the same level as assassins, but until then ... i'm going to keep pushing the upper limits of what we can do under whatever situation we are in.
Those are excellent parse #s, but I don't see why if you are 20% behind assassins, it's great? Shouldn't they be equal to be great? Would those kind of numbers be acceptable in all but a handful of guilds? Sure, but that's with top end gear and skills. Correct me if I'm wrong, but a top end assassin would beat those almost all the time - along with several other classes being in the same range - all things being equal.
you know what did i say earlier, its all about [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] group set up, imo you dont stick them in the same group ever unless your short on the clases you can use /boggle ALL CLASSES HAVE DIFFERENT NEEDS you dont give an inquisitor, coercer, and dirge to an assassin to boost dps. just the dirge will max his dps and give blades dont give agitate to a ranger give it to swash/brigande, it is melee only and would be over kill dps for an assassin to the point the wouldnt benefit from it like a rouge would. whats sad is this game is all about DPS this DPS that there no strategy like k all you rangers have to keep the bombs rooted/snared becasue if they get to the king they explode and AE the raid. Bring back stratrgy pls kk thx. 3 princes was a good start/attempt but something allitle more active like not only do the tanks have to switch but they spawn adds to that and tottaly immune to one scout class but the one they arent immune to gets bane damage vs them and they die hella fast. I guess chel'drak is kinda like that imo nothing beats the King fight in Riftseekers Sanctum in this game, man loved that fight It is VERY sad this game is all about the DPS
My guild had 2 rangers and one assassin raiding for a while. The other ranger and I always parsed neck and neck, often within 10 dps of each other. Our gear, AA's, etc were very similar. We were usually around 700dps which I realize is mediocre, but we were just beginning T7 raids focusing mainly on Lab runs. During these raids the assassin was always out dpsing us, consistently breaking 1k. Admittedly he was/is geared much better than I am. The other Ranger decides to betray. Apparently assassin masters are much easier to find and much cheaper than ranger masters, he scooped up several quickly and has some adept IIIs made. The following Lab raid he was breaking 1k dps, yet below the original assassin, while I remained at 700 ish. Gear didn't change, group setups didn't change, all that really changed was his class. He wasn't even fully used to playing an assassin yet. I think this is a clear illustration that we are lacking. It shouldn't be a surprise, assassin CA's are cast faster, and they rely on faster weapons. In the time it takes us to fire an arrow, CA and another arrow they have swung their knives multiple times and fired off several CAs. It also doesn't help that almost every AA ability is melee based, the only one that I can think of that specifically affects ranged is the ranged crit part of the AGI line. It's frustrating, but we are a pendulum class on a backswing. Gnaril
Ok - you do parse great.. But heres the thing.. Where 1350-1450 is pretty good, but its still nothing compared to an assassin.. A ranger in the best of groups and the best gear will put out 1.5kish dps (as you have stated your parsings in labs). However, an assassin is still able to maintain 1.8-1.9k in labs. And just FYI - thats what our 67 alt swash parses.
But but... we are rangers, assassins arent as cool as we are! We have RANGED attacks ya know... eh, wait, so do they ++Xan
K uhm well i came back froma 14 month break and the ranger class feels different so does my coercer which i am very happy about. Anyways you all talking about parses etc well tbh my coercer is capable to outparse my ranger now (cant get a really good comparison yet cause ranger is 63 and coerer is 70) but the coercer was doing around 1 k dps in CERTAIN SITUATIONS while my ranger was only doing 800-900ish! Now the difference here is that my ranger can do burst damage every single fight (except when facing brawlers) My coercer on the other hand is flakey some fights around 1 k some fights even lower then 200 compare nek 3 for a ranger and a coercer. Nek 3 Coercer can charm a mob that does around 1800 dps (aka possesed crate) and next to that do a measly 500 dps tops BUT THEY ARE SHORT FIGHTS! the ranger on the other hand can do around 1k 1.2k on these fights still 50% less then coercer if ya count pet and coercer. Now if ya take a zone like vaults and fight the endboss coercer DPS is really less then 100 (without pet) cause the boss is mental resistant (very high mental resistant) the ranger can do a lot more sitting on 1400 dps! SO you are all stating that necro conj and assasin and other classes outparse yall but i believe its situational and in some situations ranger can outparse all other classes and in some situations they cant! Oh BTW coercer IS NOT A DPS class! but they do feel like that sometimes on all other mobs they parse really freaking high in vaults except endboss!
I only have 2 comments on this thread (more later?) To OP: To say Ranger's got 'lazy' before the revamp is not fair. I did as much damage as I could without pulling agro. That's not lazy, that's survival. To Rinion. This game is NOT all about DPS. This CLASS is. That's all we really have... Message Edited by Teksun on 08-30-2006 08:38 AM
If you want the dps of an assassin, roll an assassin. Stop trying to make all classes the same. Let's just go back to Fighter Mage Thief and Priest then call it a day.
your right, and thats my mistake. I guess what I mean is that most end game raid guilds are all about the dps makeing our lack there of a huge problem. How many Rangers your guilds have? and if any Ill bet they are the first asked to sit when to many are on. well unless miracle arrow is needed? /boggle ^_^
Besides Teksun and I, our guild has three other 70 rangers. We aren't the first to sit out, for what that's worth. That doesn't "prove" anything, it's just the way our guild handles it.
not to mention thats about what I parse in labs and I dont concider myself to be a maxed out raiding wizard. I'm still missing 9 or so(t7) damage masters, and my gear is so-so to the poor end of a raiding wizard. Doesn't something stickout like a sore thumb when other classes can beat or match your dps (on raids) when geared / spell quality are of lesser value than your ranger. I have a ranger in my guild who struggles to hit 900 dps on a zone parse, he's far from raid geard/fully mastered, and i'd say we are equally skilled and geared comparitivly, and I can on most occasions double his dps on parses, and end zone parses 4-500 dps ahead of him. There is an issue with raiding rangers, You may be happy with where your at but you still aknowledge(sp?) that there are others who out parse you consistantly. Message Edited by IllusiveThoughts on 08-30-2006 11:49 AM
5 rangers!!! wow!! Can i join? there are 5 of you so of course if all 5 are on some are going to be siting. unless you got a EQ1 fires of Heaven thing goin on. I hear they have 24/7 Raids goin on over there with over 200 members or something like that. on the progresson server.
I'll add a little to that (Kae and I are in the same guild) He is one of our newest members and brings us to 5 Ranger MAIN toons. Four of us attend almost every raid. one is currently on haitus. Our guild leader is a Ranger so that helps. We are not an 'uber raiding guild' but we do hold our own... I just find it dissapointing to be on every raid and never hit top DPS on any encounter. That is all I have, that is all I do, I should be better at it.
*Snip* never? I can beat our assassin ..for now >< just cause im better geared /flee he has a master 1 decap tho and gearing up fast What AA line did ya go? mine is gay atm but i want to go 4/4/4/4/8 STR and 4/4/4/5/8 AGI for poise and perfectionist. I know some prefure to go int for the poison..but unless you can get grouped with a fury every single raid I dont feel it is the correct route.. well unless you can gear up to have high int and str..but then youll be competeing with your bards for gear. I had our other ranger get that AA line I mentioned (he had Agi/int) and now he can own me on parse while in the same group even though my STR is maxed unbuffed and his isnt. Perfectionist and Poise are an absolute killer combo with Rain of Arrows and poise makes everything faster. The reality is the difference between 900dps and 1500 is ussualy only acouple thousand points, so the faster you get that sniper off with bonus damage and rain of arrows....ya, get it? dots are great but what happens when the fight is over before the dot runs its course. his respec didnt cost him 10p =/ off note...but /weaponstat !!! Im a newb just found out that existed! =*(
