The itemization has to be tweaked/fixed ASAP

Discussion in 'General TLE Discussion' started by Tetley, Mar 2, 2020.

  1. Tetley New Member

    The scout gear isn’t that bad.... oh wait it’s horrible. Cleared 95% of the content solo/heroic/raid multiple times and the itemization for scout classes can not get any worst. Are we supposed to wait until RoK release for upgrades!?! EoF was probably my favourite expac and I had high but limited hopes for it after the letters and posts, from Devs, about giving TLE players more attention. EoF is just about spoiled. Unless you want people leaving the server and even the game I suggest some speedy fixes to the itemization. The upgrades don’t need to be unreal but people need some incentive to play besides just coming along for the ride.
    Kalika likes this.
  2. Kalika Well-Known Member

    Druid one is all wrong at least the heroic one, we get 3 blue with one useless (such as MA, haste). The black silk set for mage from MMC is 100% time better and i may end up wearing it.

    The druid set (the one which had a set bonus) is total crap, 3 blue stats among which one is semi garbage (melee buf).
  3. Tobias Fünke Member

    I really don't understand the itemization choices.

    On one hand, I'm glad that there is a reason to do group zones because there are good items to be had, especially in CMM.

    But all I hear on raids is "that's the same or worse as the legendary thing I already have".

    The problem is that if you nerf all of the heroic gear people are not going to have a reason to do that stuff after the first few weeks and the daily pop will be hurt. On the other hand, it's pretty disappointing to get through a fun raid fight and get a reward that ppl don't even want to spend their DKP on.

    Anyways, given track record either this won't be changed at all or it will be changed but it will make things worse, so I'm not expecting much.
  4. Somedude Active Member

    If only detailed feedback had been provided before EoF go live demonstrating these exact problems...

    Oh wait...

    It appears the problem is they do not have the resources to support both Live and TLE. I'm afraid you have to ask yourself if the product you are receiving is worth your time and investment or not. While the product *should* be better, they simply do not have re resources to provide these TLE servers the support they need, even with the slower 4 month release cycle, even with players proactively identifying the specific itemization and content items that need to be addressed.

    I've tried to stay somewhat informed on Live issues, and I can see how much is broken there and why they've prioritized much of what they have.

    It's really a double edged sword. If itemization is fixed, then it exacerbates the fact that the content is under tuned.

    Having good itemization, requires also balancing the content around it. It's already an issue where we are killing the MAJORITY of raid names in under 45 seconds. I think once we finish gear and AA even with the current gear, this will get closer to 30 second kills.

    Even Mayong which seems to have had a large HP package added to him, our first pull of him in all KoS gear and 50 AA was ~20 mins. The next time with more AA (most not at 100 still) and some people with Castle heroic upgrades the kill was at 8 mins. I suspect we'll get this down to 5-6 mins.

    I don't like broad strokes, but I think we have to consider broad strokes for expediency and recognizing limited resources.

    I would recommend the following:
    1) Loot script updated to select more appropriate blue stats by class
    2) Loot script updated to not consider resists or skills as a stat weight
    3) Loot script updated to ensure 4 blue stats on raid gear and lower majority of other gear to 3 stats with rare quest/named exceptions.
    4) A global mob package for EoF that increases combat mit of all mobs by 30.
    5) A global mob package for EoF that increases fervor of all mobs by 10.
    6) Looking at the content, Avitars would have to be excluded from 4 and 5.

    I recognize the loot script is a larger effort for the team and the mob package is a smaller one.
    Carynn likes this.
  5. Tobias Fünke Member

    Nothing we say here is going to change anything (because they're not going to change anything) so this discussion is totally academic, but just for fun:

    I don't want to really go back and forth over this Atan, but you seem to operate under the assumption that content should be tuned for the 1 (maybe 2?) guilds that prioritize min/maxing over everything else on a nostalgia server for a 15-year old game.

    The fact of the matter is that if you make it your #1 goal to excel at beating 15-year old TLE content earlier and faster than everyone else, you probably will. Maybe when this content was new and there were many servers and many top guilds, it made sense to tune the content upwards like that. I think even you'd have to agree that it doesn't make any sense to tune all of your raid content because 1 or 2 raid guilds out of 10-15 are beating it too quickly (again, because they've made that their #1 goal).

    Do I think some things are too easy? Absolutely. But again none of this is going to be changed so we're kinda spinning our wheels here regardless. There are still some hard/difficult encounters that are tough for guilds you'd consider "bad". :)
  6. Tobias Fünke Member

    And just so we're clear, I'm not opposed to any buffs. I like when things are hard. Just pointing out the problem with tuning everything based on your guilds' experience.
  7. Venser Active Member

    I think that in conjunction to raiding and difficultly Atan isn't putting on a "me me me" face saying that we need some proper progression as well as better NPC structure. If we compare this guild to that guild we know it cant work like that as some people's idea of an ideal set up happens to differ. Availability, skill, and group make up are the tools we use to be successful and if someone thinks they should be successful with 3 groups, boxed toons, lack of dps, heals and proper tanks then idk what to say. If there were lateral progression, whether or not it's necessary to move onto the next tier, I think a lot of guilds would have a concrete idea of what their groups should look like in order to make the kill.
  8. Somedude Active Member

    I think you are misinterpreting my feedback.

    I do not think and am not suggesting content be tuned to my guild, and what I suggested isn't tuning it for us. My suggestion is to try to ensure fights last longer than one spell rotation, and that the strong aoe's that should be something I consider jousting or blocking will actually hit hard enough that players don't just ignore them. The suggestions I made don't even go as far as making the content as hard as it was when it launched originally, just something that will keep it from being a pushover.

    What my guild is parsing in our second run will be what the next tier of guilds do in their 4-5th run and other guilds after a longer period of time. But most of them will reach the same issue where its way too easy. What I do believe is because the speed at which we consume the content and our ability to adapt to changes and min/max faster than other players, we're just uniquely able to identify these problems before other guilds will see it.

    The suggestions I'm making are based upon where it should be for everyone. I raid in multiple guilds. Other guilds I raid with are much more casual and I'm hyper aware of their capabilities and where the content needs to be to hold attention. Even with these changes, it will still be super easy for my guild, but we wouldn't be able to literally ignore all game mechanics with those changes. With the changes, it will likely mean we can't clear the entire expansion in 3 hours of raiding a week, which is probably better for the game for the content to present more challenge and repeat-ability.

    Currently the only encounter we even manage blockers or have to put any effort into executing is Mistress of the Veil. This is only because it shares the same AOE as Matron. I think this is not intended to be this hard and already provided feedback directly on this one. But things like Mayong's Eternal Blanket of Night is supposed to kill scouts if they don't just or block it, but currently its not even hitting for 50% of hp for someone under 12 meters.

    My feedback above was specifically based upon:
    1) Length of fights
    2) How little mobs are hitting tanks for
    3) How little aoe's are hitting causing them to simply be ignored.

    The only content that should be tuned to 1-2 guilds are the Avatars, and I'm not suggesting any tuning is needed for them. There is a bug on mischief that needs fixing, but the tuning so far seems about right. So much that we can't kill them yet cause we're not geared enough, but our testing right now tells us they are more than likely killable if we bring the exact right raid, fully geared and fully aa'd. I will only ask for tuning on these if after we've done these things and the mob still auto attacks for more HP than is achievable on a tank in game. My testing to date indicates that they will not once fully debuffed and we are fully geared.
    Carynn likes this.
  9. Somedude Active Member

    Lastly, I'm sure guilds that don't know these scripts will still be struggling with them for a period of time.

    Also, for anyone struggling with any of this content that wants help, I'm more than willing to help with information / recommendations / strategies / etc. With the exception of Contested content, for that you will need to research on your own.
  10. Tobias Fünke Member

    I essentially agree with you. Like I said, I do think raid encounters should be difficult, or they should progress in difficulty from the beginning of a zone to the end and from zone tier to zone tier. I don't think everything should be clearable in 3 hours.

    The problem is that it seems like the current person in charge of encounters just gives them more HP when they want to increase the difficulty. Either there is no interest or time to actually test/tune them.
  11. Somedude Active Member

    I should break this out, the script has to be aware of item weight / item score, and it should avoid putting certain combinations on legendary gear.
    Cast Speed + Reuse Speed
    Flurry + Multi Attack

    Combination of these stats should never happen on a treasured tier item. Combinations of these stats maybe shouldn't happen on legendary gear, if they do, should be very rare exceptions. These combinations should be restricted strictly to Fabled tier items.

    By making the gear stat allocation more intelligent, you immediately and naturally gain a more rational gear progression.
  12. Somedude Active Member

    I agree, this by itself is not a good way to tune encounters. Something with 50M Hp, but has no melee output and no AoE damage, is just an HP sponge loot pinata.

    This is why I didn't even mention HP, I mentioned combat mit and fervor buffs to the mobs.
  13. Tobias Fünke Member

    I agree that incoming damage should be bumped but is there a big difference between adding combat mit and adding HP? Either way it's lengthening the time to kill by a factor, right?
  14. Tobias Fünke Member

    This is basically it. With abmod at the levels it's at, those are the 4 stats people want because there are very few buffs for them, and they should be hard to get. Wherever you put those stats, people will go to get the gear whether it's a quest, heroic or raid. It shouldn't be this hard to itemize this.
  15. Somedude Active Member

    Correct. But I believe there is a sort of expansion wide buff package on mobs, so I believe a blanket increase of combat mit will have the right effect without having to consider and edit each mob's HP value.

    The only real difference is players have some combat mit debuffs, so using this mechanic will add value to the classes that have these CA's and AA's. In particular alot of your T2 classes (rogues, etc) have these abilities.

    For reference DT mobs had 45 combat mit last expansion. At best guilds were maybe lowering that by 15 if they ran the right classes and pressed the right buttons.

    I'm not sure yet how much combat mit is on EoF mobs, but I think they need more than they have to reduce incoming damage.

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