Well, it seems you don't understand the healing classes. How? I pointed out that there are situations where each signature heal is less effectively. Exactly as you did for reactives. As it is, a druid will outheal a cleric over time when using all methods possible for healing. It is a calculated fact and yes, there are posts about it Yes the druid can outheal the cleric but we've agreed reactives scale to damage far more effectively than HoTs and the link boli (the healing guide on page http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=spells&message.id=9434) provided earlier proved that this is situational and that reactive are as capable as HoTs or wards. (And far more capably than me. Bless you Lord Soko :smileywink: ) It is the maximum potential with all heals that count and as it is, clerics potential is the only one that scales with the amount of incoming hits. I am still waiting for any kind of comment as for why this isn't an issue To take damage there must be a hit. If there are no hits there is no damage but HoT lose potential because it ticks regardless.
Yeah wards are the only speciality heal which will ''prevent'' death if hit for more than the remaining health. Bu this is part of teh reason why wards are less mana efficient than reactives or HoTs. Message Edited by Hopefulness on 11-16-2006 11:05 AM
Fixed to make it more realistic and accurate. To be more accurate, this stays correct even if there are two hits, as long as one of the hits is not less than 400. Next to that, you are often fighting multiple mobs (big encounters), which for the same reasons, give templars an edge. Message Edited by SG_01 on 11-16-2006 09:34 PM
Also, let's take a look at a situation where the reactive is far superior: In some instances you have like 20 mobs attack your group. Think like the drakes in HoF or the spiders in ... Well forgot the name. At any rate, there's a whole bunch of them, they don't do a whole lot of damage per mob, but with a mob like that, damage accumulates fast. Clerics, having reactives will only have to have their reactives up when the tank gets down to 50%. However the druids will highly likely lose their tank, if they only use their HoTs. Just using wards doesn't quite work in this situation either, unless you time your wards perfectly. Result: A tank can pull all 4 drake groups with a cleric, but can't with a druid. A shaman might work out alright, but it won't be as easy as havnig a cleric in group. Conclusion: Druids are shafted at any mob that has a significantly higher dps than their HoTs have hps. Clerics actually have a big advantage in these situations over druids. Shaman are just overall high power using healers, that work well in both situations. As such I conclude that templars are not as shafted as you might think, and that druids may actually be more shafted with their heals than we are. In perfect situations where only 1 mob is fought, druids seem to have the upperhand. However this requires advanced crowd control that not all groups have, as well as a group that never pulls adds or get into any sticky situations. If you do not have the perfect group, a cleric seems to be preferable over a druid due to fact that they get more efficient in their heals with each extra mob. Message Edited by SG_01 on 11-16-2006 09:54 PM
Guess what a fury does on that mob when solohealing. First HoT on, the hibernation and finally Thunderstorm. 2k DPS and group all in green after fight.
What doesn't? On that particular fight, reactives are down in first second and have healed less than 25% of their potential since the mobs hit so low damage. HoT's heal 8 seconds after still and most likely for their full potential. That fight is a poor example since it really doesn't require any kind of healing in order to survive. Even when a mage gets aggro, they can easily live through it with no healing.
What doesn't? On that particular fight, reactives are down in first second and have healed less than 25% of their potential since the mobs hit so low damage Actually in that particular instance the cleric waits til the tank is in the yellow and then casts their single target reactive. Rinse, repeat. You use less mana than the fury and will maintain the tank HP better than the fury if even more turn up since your spike damage control is better. (what about other classes since you're comparing to ''the best in game'') and have used 100% of the reactives potential. This is actually how a couple of my guildies pull in most zones and i have never run out of mana doing it - everyone runs outs before me. Group HP are topped up using amending fate. That fight is a poor example since it really doesn't require any kind of healing in order to survive Then you tank hasn't pulled enough mobs to make it fun And what about the reactive signature heal ''shafts'' templars? Any more than HoT ''shaft'' druid and wards ''shaft'' shaman?
I see. This is the level of your interpretation. We always run into the middle there and just AE. So as usual, you are wrong.
You're right i have jumped the gun and thought you were talking about the multi add fight there. But taking a hypothecial situation and saying it isn't realistic to disprove it is strange. Especially suggesting to use non speciality heals in a hypothecial situation of only speciality heal is even more strange - considering the moment someone had suggesting templars would be proccing and cast anything else in their arsenal would have received the reply ''and non templars wouldn't be using their other heals? As usual blah blah blah.'' And please explain how reactives ''shaft'' templars. Message Edited by Hopefulness on 11-17-2006 03:47 PM Message Edited by Hopefulness on 11-17-2006 03:56 PM Message Edited by Hopefulness on 11-17-2006 04:05 PM
Mmm.... Gotta love heal debates. We all know reactives arch enemy is slow hits that deal a lot of damage. So the question is, what encounters have large amounts of damage from a single attack with 4 seconds or more in between attacks and no other incoming damage?
I haven't actually talked about attacks. Attacks can be avoided. When I am grouped with a templar, it is not a rare case for my monk to get stoneskin proc and then see it dissipate because I avoid every hit after that. And still I am low health because the direct heals just dont cover the previous damage.
I never said you Timaarit, the opening post did list 4 seconds between attacks though and no other damage. I was curious as to how many encounters have 4 seconds between every attack and no other damage. Healing avoidance tanks is not the strong point of reactives, I doubt anybody would disagree with that; however, Clerics can keep avoidance tanks alive if they use other heals. But the opening post was not talking about other heals they where talking about combat with 4+ seconds between attacks and I was curious how many encounters existed that had that long of an attack delay.
That is again subjective, 'keep alive' I mean. Sure clerics can do it but other will do it better. Have you ever tried healing someone after a fight? You have 2 direct heals (+ groupheal if that person is in group). Shamans have the same problems here while druids heal those over 2x as fast as others. Now if the target takes one big hit in the middle? Shamans wards heal at full, druids will heal afterwards while reactives use 12 to 20% of their capacity and then clerics are back at using direct heals. Now someone cas certainly say that what if target is hit for 10 times in 2 seconds and so one. Well, have you ever seen that? A mob that hits fast to start with and then slows pace to wait for reactives recast? I doubt it, if mob hits that for 2s, it will continue hitting so. Thus reactives might be what keep the target up in the beginning but if HoTs or wards are not enough, then on the long run, reactives will not be either. Anyway, many mobs will actually be hitting with slow intervals. Which ones and what is the hitting interval are dependant on luck. Again, templar heals are luckdependant. Lotto heals. If you win, you can heal, if you lose, you wont.
Ok, I've been hitting raids and instances all week with a Monk as MT and myself as the only healer. According to these forums and the monk forums, we should both have been nothing more than stains on the floor, what with her reduced defensive abilities and my apparant inability to heal as well as das uberdruids. Yet, here we go...killing smaller epics and instances all the live long day. How is this possible!? According to Timaarit, this should not be possible. We should be dead, mangled, and utterly unable to so much as stand on our own legs after fights without an emergency triage and surgeon. Yet, there we go, monk and templar, side by side, killing against apparantly "impossible" odds. Seriously, the doom and gloom got old after the first expansion, didn't it? After all, the "lotto heals" are heals we have that are over and above the heals other priests get. These aren't in place of standard heals - these are extra. These aren't spells we should be relying upon at all. These are spells designed to help and assist. If you're ignoring heals on your group mates because you're concentrating on firing off every possible debuff or triggered heal on every target you fight, yes, your groups will die. Of course, when you're in Obelisk of Blight and the fighter accidently pulls half of a room of yellow triple-ups by mistake due to the extensive hate range, and you're the only healer, and you're in a group full of casters all grabbing some of the adds...logic like that displayed above would seem to indicate that you're about to wipe. If you're in my group, that means I'm about to fire off both emergency zero-cost heals, drop all single target heals on the monk tank, then pop Divine Recovery (you ever going to bother getting around to your first 50 Achievement points, Timaarit?) to increase casting speed, drop Divine Arbitration (remember that spell) on the group to save two of the mages, then pop complacency (because - let's face it - you just got hate from all the heals), pop Glorious Intercession one more time on the monk, and then finally drop Focused Intercession on her as well while sitting back waiting for the 15 triggers to get used. Yeah...no one died. Imagine that. Somehow, we managed against all our perceived weaknesses to actually do our jobs? That could never happen, right? Seriously, to speak of "subjective" when you spend most of your arguments telling the rest of us how broken we are compared to other healers, one might be tempted to come to the conclusion that you don't play to potential. After all, if you really thought the class was strong, you might actually be able to focus on what is possible for us instead of what you think is impossible. "Whether you think you can or think you can't, you're probably right." - Henry Ford
Have you ever tried healing someone after a fight? Gotta say i find this statement interesting. Apart from the fate line healing the grp when the target died, and having the equal biggest single target direct heals in the game, and reactives ticking the heal when damage is taken - why would this be a balance issue? Why would you need to heal out of a fight?
That's a great point. During big fights with multiple opponents, I'm typically firing off Amending Fate immediately after Spurn. With the current level I have on the spell and the 3 points I spent in Enhance: Fate, I'm healing my entire group for well over 1200 health every single kill. It's one of the most efficient heal spells I can think of right now.
