Sony, why?

Raahl wrote:

44k DPS is relative. If you are in soloquest gear, it's probably ok, though not outstanding. If you are in x2 / RyGorr, it's starting to look weak. If you are in raid gear, you're doing something wrong.
My Dirge, who has mostly SF raid gear and a smattering of x2 (ToFS) gear, was parsing 63k on a training dummy before the nerf. Now he parses about 52k. That seems about right to me.
Dirges are still arguably the strongest parsing of the utility classes, and offer utility and buffs that no serious raid force will run without.
I fail to see the problem.

Raahl wrote:

Your are contributing to the battle by buffing your allies. If you want to contribute by doing damage roll a dps class. Heal parse doesnt really mean much to good healers. Hitting buttons on hotbars is what everyone does, and if you dont have fun doing that then play different a game since thats what this game is all about. Hitting the right ones at the right times is where the skill comes in.

Condara wrote:

How often is there a hitting the right button at the right time? Very little. Most classes are going through a predetermined order with all of their hotbars buttons.
While I am contributing to my allies, that is the least fun part of being a dirge. And Dirges are a psudo-DPS class.

Raahl wrote:

1. Troubadors were NOT psudo-DPS so bard balance was borked.
2. High end raids were using Dirges as T1 DPS which was 100% wrong.
You might not have had been in a position to see how Dirges had way to much power at the top end but they 100% did. I believe that the changes was very reasonable. They kept a lot of the dirge power at the lower gear levels and pulled back the highly geared dirges a bit to get them back into the proper level to account for what they bring to the raid..
You can not believe that your suppose to be able to add 10-20-30% DPS/Utility to the group through buffs you click once and forget about and still do really nice DPS.
If your fixated on Dirge dps then maybe Dirge isn't the class for you. I think why most people here are actually commenting to this thread is becasue you KNEW a change was coming. I know your argued against it long and hard but it's really a plain as the nose on your face.

Wasuna wrote:

1. Then fix the Troubadors.
2. That's bull. Dirges while high up on the scale were not T1. I've seen many a T1 DPS class easily out parse Dirges. Heck looking at all the top parses on another forum, the Dirge parses didn't beat the T1 DPS classes.
Did it need changed, yes. Not because of the DPS being generated, but because it would become even more skewed as stats got higher and higher.
They did not keep the dirge power at lower level gear. Being a dirge that's has yet to parse of 50k, I can verify that the nerf hit us equally hard.
Back to proper level, LOL! Back to what you believe they should be at.
Yes we should be able to do Utility and DPS. T2 DPS is where we should fall and we currently do not. It was an over nerf.
Why are you fixated on what other classes do? Why do you care what a Dirge does DPS wise?
Did something need changed? Yes. Did Sony yet again go too far in nerfing a class? Yes.

Corwin@Unrest_old wrote:

Will some Dirge's /ragequit ... yeah probably. Are Dirge's still very much desired in groups and raids ... yeah! Will some people play Dirge's and have fun playing them in groups and raids? ... yeah!

I'm pretty certain that the dirge mythical is mostly useless now.
And yay! CoB raidwide!!! does jack squat when most of your raid is haste capped. The damage proc is kinda meh and they took the interrupt off of it a while ago.
What gets me is I'm going to guess that the troubs parsing like they do has to do with the fact that they're jcapping themselves most of the time. Self immunity imo.

Nadirah@Crushbone wrote:

Yea it's funny how people are claiming it's still the best out there.

Really, I understand dirges are upset over their mythical buff, but yeah it was overpowered and needed to be changed. The thing is, I agree something better should have replaced it, or other changes outside of the mythical change should have been made. All that is beside the point tho, people keep going dirge had the most powerful myth buff, and that is simply in no way true at all. The class that is the most used class in raiding across the entire game has the most overpowered mythical, and that is inquisitors. Let me just quickly go over what the inquisitor mythical entails. First it is a straight 15 percent casting speed and reuse speed to heals at all times. It has a 50 percent chance to put an extra heal on all direct heals, including their group heal. It has a 1.8 times a minute base proc rate for 12 seconds, damage proc and group stifle immunity. Now here is the part that makes their mythical completely overpowered. They also get a second group cure that by itself is better than any other group cure in the game in many ways. It has a 15 second base recast instead of 20. It cures 178 levels of detriments instead of 100. It has a 1 second base cast time instead of 2. It has increased range over normal group cures, sorry I can't remember the exact amount, but I think it is 30 meters instead of 20 meters for normal group cures. It also can be cast in mid air while being knocked up or back while normal cures can't. It also requires zero power to cast, so when other healers can't cure due to 100 percent power drain, inquisitors can. It also has a heal on cure dispel effect that requires no AA's to get. It should also be mentioned this is the only second group cure in the game that does not require AA points to get. Now it should be noted, that I don't have a problem with inquisitors getting a second group cure on their mythical, but for it to be better than every other cure in the game in every single possible metric in the game is quite simply unfair to every other healer in the game. It has gotten to the point where most guilds couldn't kill many things they do without inquisitors. It should also be noted that the other parts of the inquisitor mythical outside of the cure are very good, and that the inquisitor class even without the second group cure is a very power class and that the extreme advantage they gain makes it where almost every single hard core raiding guild uses 3 or 4 of them. What needs to happen with this one is that the inquisitor mythical needs a solid nerf and many encounters in the game need to be made much more reasonable in some form or fashion. It could mean significantly lowering power drains. It could mean removing or just significantly decreasing the frequency of knock backs. It could mean removing a detriment from an aoe, or simply increasing the amount of time before it ticks damage. I am not saying that there are any encounters in the game that can not be done without inquisitors, simply that the level of difficulty of many, many encounters is profound when you compare them with, and without inquisitors.

Nadirah@Crushbone wrote:

Hennyo wrote:

So, nerf Inquisitors and every single encounter in the game? That's your action item?
I'm sure the Devs are writing that one down as we speak.

Banditman wrote:

A raid of Beastlords will likely not need inqs or dirges.

Banditman wrote:

Well, the thing is when you make something so over powered that it changes the shape of raiding that without it, the difficulty level of some things is crazy without it, yeah there needs to be some adjustments. The good news about the adjustments, is that while a number of encounters would need them after an inquisitor mythical nerf, the actual changes to the encounters themselves would be small. Also it would be easy to spot, which encounters needed small tweaks, based on which ones stopped getting killed by many guilds after such a nerf.
The thing is if SOE ever wants to even begin to balance healers at all, a change like this is probally the most reasonable.

Corwin@Unrest_old wrote:

Claiming because it is an outright FACT. especially amount scouts.
No other scout mythical proc comes close to even touching the power of the NERFED dirge proc.

1. 25% Flurry is roughly equal to 75 MA. If your at 300 MA then that is a roughly 25% increase in your Autoattack DPS depending on how apply this to your offhand.
2. 25% potency is roughly equal to 17% increase in your spell/combat art damage while this procs is up assuming you had 150 base potency.
The 300 MA and 150 potency are probably pretty reasonable for a EM/X2/Ry'gor geared Dirge. Therefore, assuming 50% of your DPS is from Autoattack and 50% if from Spell/CA then when this proc is up your personal DPS goes up by roughly 21% when the proc is up.
That, on top of the raid wide procs on CoB along with the haste component for the non-haste-capped people it's a great mythical.
Just becasue it's not an Uber-Over-Powered mythical now in no way means it's not a fantastic mythical.

Banditman wrote:

The dirge can be called out(and I am on a regular basis) for putting BC on themselves. Jcap isn't even remotely comperable. It's not a single target sustained buff that can be monitored like that. I get griped at for keeping BC for myself but you dont hear anyone kvetching at the troubs for jcapping themselves repeatedly.

Just because people foolishly don't understand how powerful Jcap is to hybrid and melee classes, doesn't change the fact that there is no difference between a Troub capping themselves perpetually and a Dirge BC'ing themselves. It's simply a bigger pita for the Troub who must recast his buff every 30 seconds.
In both cases, the utility player is reserving a portion of their utility exclusively for themself. In heroic content, I really don't have a problem with that, but there it is.

My Troubador can keep J-Cap on two people all the time based on reuse. When I join a group I setup three macros. Two are the top Two DPS that I feel would get the best use out of J-Cap and one is for the healer. I also have a 4th macro that is already setup for me to get J-Cap. I also have a target J-Cap macro so the tank can get it easy without me changeing target.
On a tough fight the healer gets J-Cap along with one of the DPS or the tank.
When I feel like it the DPS get J-Cap.
When I want J-Cap I give it to myself. I usually do this to get the reuse of PoTM up faster and when I do RO/VC.
The dirge mythical is still, hands down, head and shoulders above the Troubador mythical. SoE nerfed the dirge mythical but they did do a pretty good job of not stripping it down to nothing which is what they usually do when they nerf something.

Wasuna wrote:

That's why troubs outparse dirges, and why so many dirges have either betrayed or quit.
They shouldn't be doing anything to make people not want to play these classes. They should be encouraging people TO play them.

Nadirah@Crushbone wrote:

1. So it's OK for Dirges to blow Troubadors out of the water on DPS but it's NOT OK for a Troubador to out parse a Dirge? Pretty arrgogant idea on your part I'd say. I personally think they should be about equal and the dps be based on buffs and skill and not standing in one place letting your mythical proc.
2. No, bard classes can be fun. It just takes somebody who doesn't want to top the parse ever fight like some little baby that needs their bottle all the time. Dirges are not suppose to push T1 DPS... period. After that, enjoy your class, understand the buffs you give and know your participating in a valued manner.