Melee auto attack still out-DPSes ranged auto attack on live, yes. Insofar as I know, nothing was ever done in beta to address this issue. Mostly that's a culmination of the misguided belief that ranged auto attack has been doing far more damage than melee auto attack. It hasn't for quite some time. People see big numbers and say 'hey, that's doing more DPS!' but it isn't actually. Melee auto attack DPS and ranged auto attack DPS have been very close for quite some time, and SF just pushed melee ahead. Incidentally, most of those tests were done without the proc from our offensive stance, the proc from makeshift arrows, and the DoT proc that comes from our TSO set pants, and our mythical proc, all things that only proc off of ranged. And before I get your hopes up too high? ...I've done this test on live without bothering to get rid of any of those procs, and melee autoattack still commonly outparses ranged auto attack (and there aren't any procs on my melee auto attack at all. We're talking about four procs working off of ranged auto attack and ZERO procs on melee, and melee still generally wins out). It's close, but melee still tends to win. That's pretty messed up. To explain to the trouby why this is a big big big deal, you can't stand in the sweet spot, which is a place between 2-5 meters from the mob (not 35 meters out), and melee auto attack. The sweet spot is what allows us to use both melee and ranged arts in a raid fight. But it's too far out for melee auto attack, even if you've got the Miragul's charm. Which means you have to run in with all the rest of the scouts. Except your ranged arts, which are the vast bulk of your combat arts, won't work from that distance. The suggested solution on these boards is apparently to blow all our ranged combat arts really fast, run in and melee, while doing melee combat arts, then run back out to blow our ranged arts when they come up, and pray this somehow does more damage. Sound like fun to you? Note, going full melee auto attack means we don't get any benefit from makeshift arrows, no proc from offensive stance, no proc from the mythical buff, no proc from set pants (all extremely large parts of our DPS in raids). Our mythical buff adds 10% combat art damage and a base auto attack multiplier, and that is absolutely all it does outside of the (already kind've mediocre anyway) proc. Now I don't doubt troubies have their own issues, not the least of which is apparently they're kind've boring on a raid. However, troubies are extremely useful to a raid force, boring buff bots or no. I don't know how their buffs stack against dirges and enchanters, but their buffs are extremely useful, and you do NOT want to raid without bards. In fact, isn't a bard in every group the ideal? Four bards at least then, yeah? So please allow me to point out the obvious: no raid looks specifically for rangers. In fact, it may be detrimental to a raid to take a ranger along, if they haven't padded out the DPS in other areas so as to make up for taking along a class that generally can't compete with the other DPS classes, or in some cases, the 'buff bots'. While it's nice to do DPS as a utility class, that's not what the class is brought along for on raids. And while yes, troubies are at the bottom of the pile, or were pre-SF, when it comes to utility DPS, your main purpose isn't to do DPS. That is ALL rangers can do. It is the only reason to bring a ranger. And I've had a few bards dogging at my heels on the parse in this expansion. If no one played a ranger, you would not see raids calling for a ranger in their current state. Lack of players does not somehow make the class more desirable unless the class was desirable before. Boring or not, troubies benefit raids and groups greatly. Those buffs of yours can make or break a raid or a group. Rangers bring DPS. At the moment, rangers bring subpar DPS, and less utility than other T1 DPS classes, let alone the T2 (swashy) or the utility classes. So people wouldn't call for rangers. They can grab any other DPS class and gear and AA being equal, that DPS class will do more DPS than a ranger would. Sorcerers included. Which breaks your entire argument. Sorcerers are sitting at the top of the heap right now, and they can sit further out than rangers can and do almost max DPS, whereas rangers sitting at ranged are crippled for damage. Oh, and I have to pay for arrows to be able to do that. So exactly where's the balance there? And please don't say cloth versus chain armor. The AEs this expansion will one-shot you regardless of whether you're wearing a dress or a chain shirt, and it's been that way for quite some time. Ditto should you happen to pull aggro. TL;DR: Rangers don't sit that far out, if they do voluntarily, they suck, if they do because of encounter mechanics, they will do less damage than sorcerers, who can do that almost without penalty (I believe Fusion needs you to run into melee range?) and melee classes will still beat me even if they have to joust AEs, we bring less utility than just about any other class in the game, pay through the nose for arrows (our raid assassin was shocked when I told him how many I use on a typical raid night, even with all the little things put in to reduce that number), do less DPS than the top tier DPS classes and less than most of the second tier DPS classes (and prior to this expansion, a well played ILLUSIONIST, T3 DPS, would out-DPS me), and in spite of us supposedly being predators, we do less DPS than bards if some part of the encounter forces us into minimum range. And all of that, and I'd just like to point out there's probably a reason your raid wants you bringing your trouby rather than your ranger to raids. Just a thought.