So Far, CD Leaves Me Cold

Discussion in 'General Gameplay Discussion' started by Almee, Apr 7, 2019.

  1. Almee Well-Known Member

    Sigrdrifa, I analyzed computer programming from 1982 to 2001. I know a thing or two about masking and I know it when I see it. It is a common technique used to "enhance" the game by making quests more challenging, which is gobbledygook for how to make players spend more time playing. The nodes may, or may not, really be masked. If you are the only one in the zone, with a quest that needs the nodes, they simply don't spawn because you have a quest that needs them. But quest nodes can also be masked so that if a player, in the zone, doesn't have the quest, they won't see the nodes the players, with the quest, will see.
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  2. Melkior Well-Known Member

    I'll say that this doesn't match my experience with harvesting.
    I understand the concept Almee, and they do clearly use it for some quests, but I have never experienced it masking nodes to make quests take longer to complete. Having done the harvesting quests 9 times a day many days since November I can say nodes are pretty much always in similar places, with the only difference being how many people are working a quest at the same time. Try for example getting the quest one day but finishing it the next when many are on the next zone, and you'll find nodes way more plentiful.

    Either way this is pretty easy to prove or disprove. Two characters with node tracking, one with the quest, one without should see the same items. If they do nothing is being masked. If they don't then you'd have a point. Having not actually ever seen the code, I can't say it doesn't exist, just that it doesn't match my experience doing the quest. Having been the first to zone into a new Doomfire 2 overland instance for example, I can say nodes are abundant. This is a much different experience than zoning in as the 9th or10th person in the zone. I'm going to go with Occam's Razor here and say it is far more likely that this is the reason, than that a game dev deliberately hides nodes to make quests take longer to complete.
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  3. Sigrdrifa Well-Known Member

    When I started my first programming job, we were hand-punching Hollerith cards, adding a JCL stack, and waited hours for it to even compile, never mind run. When I retired we were working on tiny computers with more programming power than the mighty behemoths that filled whole rooms had at the start of my career, and working in C++ and Ruby on Rails. Over the decades working with dev teams, the thing I learned is the K.I.S.S. principle. Clean, elegant code that wasn't convoluted and which achieved its purposes was what was valued.

    THIS. Almee, I am pretty certain you have developed a superstition based on observed behavior once or twice. Harvesting has worked the same way for a long time now. To combat the problem of cherry-pickers leaving bushes behind and creating a landscape full of nothing but bushes, every so often the harvesting nodes respawn. This can happen while you are actively harvesting a node, too.

    Think like a developer and analyze this behavior in a testable way, not just anecdotally. Melkior described a good test to determine if masking is present. Some other ways I would test your hypothesis:

    (1) Grab the quest, then wait 24 hours before you do it, so that most people will be harvesting for the next day's quest in another zone. Do you have trouble getting your nodes?

    (2) Check Harvest Tracking when you start harvesting and after every subsequent harvest. When you think you see a re-pop, check Harvest Tracking and check to see if ALL nodes have not become more plentiful.

    (3) Pick up the quest, and write down the items it requires, then delete the quest from your journal. Go harvest, spend the same amount of time and hit the nodes in the same way you would if you were working the quest. Is the behavior different?
  4. Sigrdrifa Well-Known Member

    Since the written description was too much, I made a harvesting video. I will try to do one for Doomfire later. On this one, you can see me get rid of aggro two ways, once when a mob literally popped right on me, and another when I overjumped and sort of kicked a frog in the nose. Since it takes me about 30 mins to circle the whole zone, the video is 30 minutes.

    The principles are the same in any zone: stay at the edges of areas, harvest around those edges.
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  5. Kuulei Well-Known Member

    I harvest, on average, 50k+ mats a week and that is on just this one character.
    The Myrst daily quest is the only one that requires mats from a specific zone. The Anchorage and guild harvest quests are NOT zone specific. Remember, if you're harvesting in say "Doomfire" because it is the daily quest, so are many other people. If I recall correctly, the daily quest actually doesn't require all that many items to complete it. It's the guild harvesting quest that requires 50 of everything. If you're having issues with harvesting for the library daily quest, skip it altogether OR just do that quest by itself, rather than puck up all the harvesting quests at once! The reason I advise this is because most of the players pick them all at once and try to complete all 8 quests (3 GH harvest quests, 1 library quest and 4 achorage quests) at one time, monopolizing every node they come across.
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  6. Soara2 Well-Known Member

    I have only taken my main 2 to cd zones. They are certainly not boosted and I don't like how much time I spent killing off mobs either. When this happened in pop, they raised the potency and need to do it again. I have Ascension levels and my sk hits are off the chain normally, still took forever to kill non named.
    The 400 bucks I think they are talking spell upgrades or Kronos to sell for plat infusion which I still need to do obviously.
    Also boosted characters do have AAs and their spells ate expert I believe. Can check mine are future on Skyfire and sunset on Majdul
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  7. Milchbart Active Member

    Well, please don´t take my critic too hard. I have checked your toons on EQ2U.I am not surprised about your problems. For example Future:
    Potency is 35k. In other words you are fighting without any potency in CD. Potency is a multiplier. It has much more influence than AB-modifier, what you only add. Flurry, offensive skill and all these other things are also less important. In addition, for sure, your dps is in general bad, because of following reasons.

    - Equipment is completely from Tishans box. Obviously you have not made the questline. The legendary rewards are much better. Sig-line is flagged heroic, but you can do all quests in solo dungeons. If you are not strong enough alone, look for a friend who helps you. 2 toons are much stronger than 1 toon and 1 merc. It should be not that difficult to find just 1 other player with same problems.
    - You have no blue and no green adornments, not 1 single. If you have no possibility to take them from Tishans gear, make the sig-line of altar of malice. With lvl 110 it is more than easy. The final reward is an adornment dislogger. You can also loot green adornments in PoP. They are today not the very best, but still good.
    - Orange adornments are not totally new, but ok.
    - White adornments are pretty old and many of them with useless stats like offensive skill or AB-modifier. You need potency.
    - All spells are adept. After 1, 5 years being lvl 110 they should be expert or more. Experts are made by crafters. I understood you are a crafter?
    - All ascensions are apprentice. Why you are not researching them. Ok, it takes time, but it is for free and after more than a year some important should be expert or master.

    Sunset is even worse than Future.

    Your skills are enough to start CD, but definitively not for more. Of course infusions or reforging is helpful, but don´t overestimate the effect. Actually it is rather small. This is not your problem. Your problem is a very, very basic equipment and a really poor level of your spells and ascensions.

    In EQU I cannot see your deity points. Have you done quest line from Yun Zi? It is very easy and you can improve crit. bonus, stamina and potency by 85.

    About my last point I am not completely sure but in PoP sig line you get a buff what multiples your potency in solo dungeons. I cannot remember the name. For sig line in CD you need it absolutely.
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  8. semisus Well-Known Member

    Just wanted to say the adornment dislogger is buyable from any class merchant in varius citys , you dont need to do sig line to get those and they cost 1 copper
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  9. Soara2 Well-Known Member

    Um. No. Lol. These 2 are crafting alts. I used four boosts on future. If that tells you how much that one gets played. I do sig lines only on my Skyfire sk and fury. I have to still infuse the mc gear on them.yes I did the summer quests. No my alts you looked at are not 5 years old. Was only showing what boosted toons get in terms of AA and spell upgrades. None of my characters were 110 that long because it would be impossible
  10. Milchbart Active Member

    I wrote it already, I don´t harvest, craft, salvage or experiment and my toon is working fine. With finishing questlines you reach something close to 50 k pot and that is a good start for the missions The only thing what I did multiple times are the weekly missions and the Dr. Arcana quests. For one weekly you get 35 coins (70 for members) and you have to kill just 4 mobs in overland zones! One run of only 16 mobs in 4 zones gives 140 coins or 280 for members. From Arcana you get 10 if I remember correctly and a key for the "surprise chest". A fabled gear cost in library 100 coins. I would not call this endless grinding! By doing the weeklies you will loot also infusers. After 3 weeks, without doing anything else, pot is clearly over 50 k.

    Critic is always ok, but this time it is in my eyes not justified.
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  11. Milchbart Active Member

    Well, I imagine your fury and your SK are in the same guild. The guild has only one fury and the SKs are looking rather similar. You are right they have better equipment, but the general problem is the same. For example the fury has master crafted gear and a rather full set of adornments. Your resolve is 1300. That´s fine, but totally useless for solo gaming. Only heroic mobs have resolve. Your potency is 41 k. It is better than 35 k, but against a potency mitigation around 40 k it is still very close to 0.
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  12. Soara2 Well-Known Member

    Again haven't finished their gear yet. Haven't taken them to cd since swapping out of the freebie gear. I don't think we should have to upgrade just to do the solo line. This needs to be fixed. Kindled is 42 on Skyfire leaderboard for Max Magic hit. I don't think they are similar at all. Reveal was a pally and I lost all masters when I betrayed her. The other sk in the guild are not max level.

    Also no one needs to get adornment dislodger from an entire sig line. Just buy the spell from the class trainer.

    Oh yeah and I do not use mercs when I solo.
    Also your idea of having trouble and mine are completely different. I can kill the mobs just fine but it takes longer than I wanted it to.
    Breanna likes this.
  13. Milchbart Active Member

    @ Almee

    I would like to do following suggestions:

    - Exchange mc - chest and mc - secondary weapon against quest reward from sig - line. For a few coins you can upgrade them from fabled to mythical. Increase of potency should be around 1000.
    - If possible exchange useless white adornments like offensive skill, AB-modifier, even health, against potency (Tishan´s box maybe). Your 60 million of HP is fine for a fury. If you loose a little it is less important.
    - Use blue adornments from Tishan.
    - Have a look to orange adornments from Tishan. Generally you have them already, but some from Tishan have a higher level than yours.
    - Run weekly solo missions in overland zones. For each quest you have to kill 4 named. Indeed the fight takes in the beginning a rather long time, but it becomes better with each queat reward. Respawn of the named is around 20 min. You win coins for fabled gear and infusers. Forget the mission for solo dungeons. It takes to much time and fights are much harder.
    - Run Dr. Arcana quest, in time with the weeklies. You win in this way additional infusers, legendary gear and coins of another currency. If you have a little luck you find even a fabled gear.
    - If you have in mind to infuse some items with platin, wait till you have better, fabled gear. Otherwise you spend money for nothing. The mc- gear is it not worse. You will exchange at least a part of it soon.
    - Your spells are still not so good. Try to buy master or research your most effective damage-spells and only damage-spells. Mobs in CD overland don´t hit very hard, but named have 7 billion HP. Master spells are helpful.

    I believe if you reach 45 k pot, you will see already an improvement. From 45 to 50 k doubles your dps. 60 k doubles it again. In other words, If you need today 2 min. to kill a mob it will take in the future some sec.
    Depending on your playstyle and of course help from friends, this action will take not more than 20 hours playing time.
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  14. Raff Well-Known Member

    It's working fine enough to to play the way you do. But 50K Pot isn't enough to contribute to a T1 Heroic group.
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  15. Soara2 Well-Known Member

    If you are not a member, you can not use the 3 green or one blue adorns from the box which is why I took them out. I will be ftp during my much needed vacation. Good advice for upgrades though but I am done with the bar moving. Raids is fine and groups I still have issue with but solo. No. Should not need to be jumping through this many hoops for
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  16. Milchbart Active Member

    You are right, 50 k pot is not enough for T1 heroic, but I wrote 50 k pot in a different context. Soara wants to harvest in CD, not to run heroics.
    Potency mitigation in T1 is around 50.000 and resolve is 1050. If you continue the way what I suggested in post 74 a little longer you can reach 60 k pot and 1200 resolve. I think it is enough to start T1 heroic.
    Today I am already a step ahead. Ok, I bought some fabled items from broker. Maybe they are still to expansive for everybody (between 500 k and 2000 k platin). I run also some public raid and I have now 70 k pot. and 1500 resolve, enough to run even T2.
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  17. Milchbart Active Member

    Well, maybe this is the reason for our disagreement. Indeed some new good fabled items are prestige flagged. Of course for ftp players it is a big handicap.
    Just for your information, I have checked my own toon. Unfortunately I cannot remember from where I got all items and I have just exchanged some of the gear from solo playing. I am sure in following:
    - I have still 1 blue adornment from Tishan, a fabled chestplate and a mythical secondary weapon from sig-line. They are all available for ftp.
    - I have 2 fabled relic, 2 green adornments from missions and 1 blue stone from somewhere I do not remember. They are prestige.
    - In addition I bought from broker in the last time fabled legs, 1 finger, 1 waist. they are all free for ftp. But ok, that cost lot of platin. To reach 50 k potency it is not necessary. With this action I got over 60. I remember the lowest price was for waist with 4000 pot after infusion.
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  18. Almee Well-Known Member

    As I have said many times, this is all way too complicated for me. I just want to have fun, not run a spreadsheet to figure out which adorns, or other equipment enhancers, are going to allow me to kill any mobs that get in my way when I'm harvesting. And I don't want to run repeated quests just to get the adorns, or whatever, needed to make my equipment uber.

    It used to be that the mobs scaled up in power as you gained better gear. That kept fights from dragging on for too long.

    This doesn't seem to be the case in CD though it was in PoP, or the mobs were just easier to kill with only the box equipment. I had no trouble killing any of the overland mobs, in PoP in my paper armor which made adventuring a lot more fun than it is in CD.

    I managed to get most of my toons leveled to 110, doing the PoP timeline without any problems fighting the mobs that came my way. It didn't exhaust me like adventuring in CD does.

    And that leads me to another pet peeve with CD. I didn't have to swap out armor, when harvesting in PoP like people say you need to do in CD. The two toons, I had out last night, are maxed for harvesting skill and have most of the other stuff needed for harvesting rares. But, if I put it on, the fights are going to take even longer than they do now. This is another case of making the game far more complicated than it needs to be.

    I tried making macros, to swap out equipment, but my equipment changed so fast I was spending way too much time editing macros instead of harvesting. I get absolutely no enjoyment from making or editing macros. It is just another way DB tries to prolong our time in the game. I won't call it play time because it sure isn't play for me.
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  19. Melkior Well-Known Member

    Why macros for equipment? Open your character window and create an armor set for Harvesting and one for Adventuring. It's as simple as hitting the save button when you swap out an item. Swapping sets is very fast using that method.
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  20. Almee Well-Known Member

    Melkior, it is great that you know all these tricks but how does DB expect new and returning players to know them? I've been playing almost 19 years and I didn't know that tip.

    I am sure there are lots of ways to make playing easier but the sheer volume of knowledge, needed to play this game, makes my Ph.D. studies look like grade-school stuff. It is simply overwhelming to most people which is why EQ2 has such a tiny player base compared to far easier-to-play games.

    We live in an increasingly complex world and people play games to get away from complexity and stress. MOGs should be escapism devices where we can release the built-up stress of the day.

    A new study, just came out, that found 50% of Americans, surveyed, reported feeling stressed and anxious the previous day ( The last thing people want is to be stressed by the computer game they are playing.

    I think DB did a great job of this, with PoP overland, and was hoping CD would continue that. I did get frustrated at some of the quests but the overall PoP timeline was engrossing and entertaining. I wish I could say the same for the Signature timeline and the dungeons.

    PoP had a light overall tone whereas CD is dark and brooding, except for a couple of zones. It is as depressing as Thalumbra which wasn't a big hit with players.

    So far, the only good thing I've found, with the CD xpac, is the tradeskill timeline. And even there, I hated the parts that involved the depressing zones.
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