Snaps and the quest for Fighter Balance.

Discussion in 'Paladin' started by ARCHIVED-FrozenFrostbeard, Nov 23, 2010.

  1. ARCHIVED-FrozenFrostbeard Guest

    Now, first and foremost lets be frank. "Lore and feasiblity" and the role-playing aspect of the game fell of the truck a long time ago. Yes, as a crusader we cast spells AND use combat arts, it is the beauty of the hybrid class: doing two things half as good and one or the other.
    That said, I've been paladin'ing since Beta. I've seen all sorts of things come down the tube. I cannot however try and understand what on earth is balanced between fighter classes in having Holy Ground be a spell, that cannot be cast while moving. Yes, the role of a paladin would constitute the application of "standing still to create a zone of sanctity". C'mon. Lets go a little further. AFAIK: all other tank classes have the ability to cast all of their snaps while running. Insolent Gibe, for example (or whatever its called now a days) has a humongous radius and the ability to cast while running. Guardians get recapture on something like a 30 second recast. and this is the paladin board, so i'll refrain from talking shadowknight for those hard core enough to get why.
    The heals, i totally get the standing still. Even some of the nukes. Totally cool. Aggro control abilities requiring me to stand still, then hope my nuke or arrow isnt resisted or missed and THEN hope they were also in range, for the measly 1-aggro position increase on cast. Running after them, hoping theres enough buttons/time to get there, intercept the group mate, and try to hit it a bunch. Everyone else can use their aggro snap abilities, i think its only fair if Paladins can snap on the run as well (if we can call Holy Ground a snap...)
    Secondly: I've spent the 1 point on Sneering Assault to attempt to have a back up snap. The 5 meter range on this is pitiful if not insulting to AA ablilities everywhere. When chasing down a target that has wiped (can you tell aggro wipes to 0 are bloody annoying yet?) the Sneering assault button lights up like it could be cast but then you chase and hit it and all t does is spam "OUT OF RANGE".


    TLDR: Holy Ground needs to be cast-on-the-move. You know it, I know it. Lets stop kidding ourselves.
    TLDR2: Increase Range on Sneering Assault.
    TLDR3: Aggro wipes to 0 are dumb. If the "what would a mob do" mentality existed, I highly doubt it would seriously forget all about me like i'd never just slapped it in the face with a sword made of shiny metals and fire.
  2. ARCHIVED-Boli32 Guest

    Sneering assualt needs a touch more range... I think every tank will agree on that.
    As for the rest... we're not gonna get it; as long as HG is unresistable and has such a short recast.
  3. ARCHIVED-Controlor Guest

    Agree with Sneering Assault (as boli said any tank would)
    HG though is "fine". Yes it must be cast standing still but it is a relatively fast cast spell, unresistable, and fast recast. If your not quite fast enough to cast it before it gets out of the 10 meter range try jousting to the mob than casting. Both are pretty quick (though joust sometimes fails to land). But you do need to talk about SK's to talk about snaps being uninteruptable. Namely Grave Sacrament is a spell that is interuprable if they move. Grave sacrament is their equivelant to holy ground. So yes there is that.
    *edit* HG also has unlimited targets. Sure this doesnt mean much if you only have 1 target. However it still does have unlimited targets within the 10 meter range.
  4. ARCHIVED-FrozenFrostbeard Guest

    i know what HG does and how it works, point being having to stand still while the mob wipes you to zero and runs away. Praise HG all you want, its stupid to have to hope you catch it in range or hope you get there quick enough that it might make a difference.
    Effectively its a personal COB. Though it would work really well on those frog biter plants that walk real slow back in ROK.

    I fail to see why being able to move at 12% run speed in combat to cast 1 position temporary buff that procs hate gain is so outlandish. They make fights where moving is mandatory, and fights with stupid wipes to zero (and if I recall, they claimed they werent going to do wipes to zero anymore). You guys are effectively arguing that moving while casting a .5 second cast time spell would make it overpowered.
  5. ARCHIVED-Sylvellior Guest

    An increase in range for sneering assault for all fighters, sure. But our lack of snap agro is part of the balance for having an easier time with sustained agro than other fighters.
    And HG not being castable on the run is fine. As it's only 1 position increase, it's no good as snap agro anyway. It's way better for getting back up the hate list while the OT caught the mob after it wiped (or ate/charmed you), and you don't need to move while doing that.
  6. ARCHIVED-Boli32 Guest

    Holy ground has a short reuse, unreistable both in taunt effects and damage with no max target AoE rescue; whilst we may lack in number of rescues we pretty much have the best one; (not counting reinforcement). The fact it cannot be cast on the run is of little consequence in the big scheme of things.
    95% of a pallys snap agro issues would be solved by increasing the range/resistability of Sneering assualt; out of all the tanks unless it is a guardian running reinforcement we can get from 0-100% the quickest; thanks to Faithful Cry, Sigil and the amount of hate HG can actually put out.
    Sneering assault is the problem not our number of snaps as it is resisted FAR too much (it shouldn't be resisted at all!) and it is often out of range once the mob memwipes to a caster leading us to run around a fool after the mob trying to get in range.

    EDIT: Pallys cast spells and we have to stand still to cast them, that has been a "design feature" since day1. Unless the next expansion means we can move and cast expect to see it continue like that untill the game finally dies. Its one of the drawbacks and benefits to being a pally. I woudl rather have spells than have them all turne dinto combat arts which we cna use on the run.
    Interupts on heals however are another matter.... but that's another story.