I'm an armorer (and I have a tailor, jeweller and sage and I don't have this problem with them) and to craft, I need metal. Problem, I can't find any ... and when I find one, I just get loam. there, in 2 hhours of harvest, I managed to have 30 iron, 40 loams, a hundred roots, many pelts .. more than I need and I don't harvest everything ... I just want to be able to harvest less and craft more. With my jeweller, there are so many recipies I can craft with discovery xp and level fast .. so harvest is usually not a problem. Same with the sage. It's a bit longer for the tailor but I usually don't have material problems. The armorer has sometimes only 3 items on on lvl recipe so not much discovery xp and leveling is longer .. that's okay to me, but with 300+ iron and only do 2 level (I have vitality so double xp and I chain city tasks for xp) and it takes me forever to have those 300+ irons. And I'm only lvl 35 armorer ... so hos will it be at higher lvls? you have to do something, coz I wanted to have my craft lvl same or higher than my adventure lvl, but it's so slow it's just impossible ... and I block my xp, but quests make me lvl up. so there is a problem with armorer ... and I'm just sick of not being able to do 4 lvls before harvesting again when my same lvl jeweller almost does a full tiers. so whether you make I don't know, item cost less iron, or make us be able to harvest more of them or i don't know, but, am I the only one with this problem?
I have to say I have found the metals to be extremely scarce, I am currently levelling a Jeweller, Provisioner, Armorer, Alchemist and a Carpenter simultaneously, and the one material I have an extreme shortage of is the Carbonite. For every 2 hour run I do harvesting, I come back with ample Loam, roots, pelts (for my Tailor as well), I am swimming in Agates and food, but, for example, today I came back with 236 Loam, 352 Agates, and around 50 Carbonite (not sure how many exactly as I had a few already in my bags when I went out collecting. Seeing as my Armorer needs 3 Carbonite for the basic recipes, and my Jeweller and Carpenter also use it, the ratio of these to the other materials is causing me much fist shaking at my screen. Although, I was cursing the lack of Carbonite earlier, and then went out and the first 3 nodes I picked gave me 15 *grins* I was under the impression that Loams were the more scarce material originally, and thought it was just that I was using bucketloads of Carbonite, but after checking I find its that Carbonite just appears less often.
Earar wrote: I have an armorer I'm slowly levelling, so do understand what you're saying. Having said that, I think it's an ongoing project of Domino's to slowly add in imbue recipes for the "non-standard" sets of armor (Devout, etc) and to add in missing pieces to those sets, so that every tier one can make a full set of every type of armor. Someone correct me if I'm wrong on that, but that's my understanding. As far as harvesting, I do hit roughly 50/50 on loams/metal..but it can be a crapshoot too. Some days, I barely get any loam, some barely any metal. But yes, it can be annoying. Half wonder if loams and metal should have their own nodes..but that is another discussion. As an aside, it sounds like you're doing tier 2, if you're harvesting iron? If so, remember you have all of the outfitter recipes, not just armorer. May as well do some of the weapons and tailoring recipes. Will be a small horde of weapons you can do also at tier 2, since GU45 had the weaponsmith revamp. If you're at the lower end of tier 2, some of your tier 1 recipes may still con at least green, if so do them for first time EXP before they go gray. If you're past tier 2, maybe check to see if any tailor or weaponsmith recipes from tier 2 con at least green to you, might as well milk those before you do your new armor recipes. Finally, tradeskill writs are pretty good EXP and do pay a tiny bit back, you do get fuel cost plus a tiny bit on quest completion. That will help a lot with levelling.
Troubor wrote: This was how I did my first couple of crafters, just to charge through and get the most experience I could from pristines. I've actually stopped doing anything in the 10-19 range that isn't a recipe for my final tradeskill choice until I have my crafting skill for my main choice maxed for level. So often I hear folks in crafting channels or the level 20's channel complaining about a lack of sucess once they are their final profession in the early 20's. Most of the time this is because their main skill is well below maxed. There is no one true way to go about it, but whichever choice you make will have a drawback to it of some sort. None of them are insurmountable though, just require a little extra time/work to get up to speed or enough materials
Earar wrote: Then buy your metal from me. I have loads of it, both mats and rares. I harvest daily, many hours a day. So, your choice is clear.. grin, bear it, and harvest. Or, buy it from people like me. Don't ask that the system be dumbed down, and in turn, lower the prices on the broker, because you're too lazy to spend some time out harvesting. Heck, come do it where I come from. You think its hard there.. harvest with 3 or 4 other players spontaneously jumping you just as you find that elusive ore node. Edit: Didn't mean to come off as testy as that sounded after re-reading it. About once every month somebody asks for rares or mats to be more common and more easily accessible. And, those requests tend to rub us full time harvesters the wrong way. We get that some people don't enjoy harvesting. But, luckily you have those of us who happily invest the time in to it and actually enjoy the trade. So, what it comes down to is: Its not really that the metals aren't available to you. Its that you don't want to work or pay for them. Is that a fair assessment?
Spyderbite@Venekor wrote: Well I don't personally buy it from you, but the point is still very valid. On average my tolerance for what I will spend on mats are around 1-2 plat a tier. The main problem I have is when folks are putting the price up too high in-which case I just turn my nose up at it and go back farming. I don't need to do that for my other crafters cause it's not an issue. I am FINIALLY into T6 so I can farm SS and other places for metals, When I hit T7 It will be even easier to farm metals and then at T8 folks are usually throwing them away just so they can get the precious rares for spells. Anyways My point, My woodworker (if I had a weaponsmith would say that too) just got a break in the metal requirements so that I don't need as much TG!! I just wish/hope that it will be done for armorer although to be frank I will most likely have my armorer at 80 long before any relief is ever seen. So the long and the short of this, yes it's a valid concern, yes someday it might be addressed but if you want to really have your armorer it's going to cost in time and plat. Oh and as been previously mentioned the rate at which you get hard metals(clusters) and loams from ore nodes is around 50%. Just cause you aren't seeing that doesn't mean it's not that rate just means you have too small of a sample size. HECK just reciently I had more hardmetals then I had loams from my trip harvesting. I can't tell you how estatic I was.
Troubor wrote: While this being true and a valid point, please do one step backwards and take a look at it again: Basically you are saying to be an armorer I have to craft another professions recipes. Am I the only one who thinks this is weird? Beside that, it does not solve the problem of scarce metal and after T2
first as not english native, I used iron to say metal in général, not knowing the T4 metal name in english. Then I have 4 crafters, between 32 and 47 I try to make them lvl up at the same time to harvest the same tier. Then I work 9 to 10 hours a day, I come home, I raid until 1.00 a.m. then go to sleep and I harvest on week ends. What I'm talking about is that you find plenty of roots, wood, bushes, but metals .. at least in EL and Zek are ... almost rare drops ... and that's what annoys me. I need 5 feyiron to craft a BP for exemple and it takes me 2 hours to get 30 feyiron ... this means ... 6 craft only ... not much. I don't have this problem with my tailor, nor my jeweler nor my sage coz they don't use much metal or not at all ... My brother is a weaponsmith and has the same problem as me ... Hard time finding metal. I know armorers are slow xpers, and I don't mind ... what I mind is the lack of metal ressources. and I must not be lucky I usually have more loam than metal. so yeah .. with your little remarks as .. try not being that lazing, buy from me (on storm server, metal clusters are actually more expensive than handcrafted armors ...) or I don't know what else, I'm not here to make the game easier than it is, I'm just saying, why is it so hard to harvest metal clusters, why are they so rare? from what I know, armorers, weaponsmiths, jeweler, tailors, and surely 2 other classes need metal clusters .. this is a lot ... so why can't we harvest more of them? I spend more time harvesting than crafting, that's what annoys me. Am I the only one annoyed by that?
I know how you feel.... I (stupidly) raised all crafters to tier 8 but the Weaponsmith and the Armorer. They are both 46 now and the harvesting of ore is killing me.... The only consolation is that I have plenty of loam to make tinkered items... I just need *gulp* more clusters! I hate... and really refuse to sell any of my raws, so my banks are filling up with everything BUT the metal clusters....thank goodness that we got extra space...
Earar wrote: I understand where you are coming from. And, I am on the opposite end of the spectrum. I find sitting in a tradeskill instance boring. But, absolutely adore running from zone to zone all day long harvesting. Hehe.. as a matter of fact, on Venekor, there are people who've told me that if they see me in a zone harvesting they just move on because they know that I'm capable of clearing out an area before it even respawns. XD But, regardless of my resistance to tradeskill, I do it none the less because the only other option is to purchase the items from other players. Much like you would need to purchase rares/mats from others if you chose not to harvest. So, what I do is set aside an entire day where I do nothing but tradeskill and get it all done for the week. The rest of my days are spent harvesting so I'm never in short supply of rares or mats or imbues. You might want to try the same system. Pick a time when you have more than 2 hours, and just go harvest like crazy. If you don't get the feysteel you need for example, sell all the rares you do collect and purchase it. I dunno. I'd like to see a compromise without hurting another trade. In this case the Harvesting trade. I know many don't consider it a valid trade but, but to those of us who do it full time and its our EQ2 livelihood.. these things effect us greatly. And, when changes such as increasing the drop rates of rares is suggested/requested/demanded, many times people don't realize the impact it will have on their fellow players such as myself.
Ok.. I just had thought which may or may not be a good compromise. Leave the frequency of rare drops exactly where they're at for people with the minimum harvesting skill for that tier. But, as harvesting skills (mining in this example) increase beyond the tier you are harvesting, the frequency of rare drops increase as well. Higher the harvesting skill the more frequent the rare drops. For example I can successfully harvest in T7 without fail, but my rare drops are infrequent as they are now. But, if I go to T5, EL and harvest, my odds of getting a rare such as feysteel are substantially higher. This will at least require some investment of time in harvesting in order to reap the reward of frequent rare drops (but not too frequent to saturate the market.. perhaps just on par with other current nodes). Those who do not wish to invest the time in increasing their harvesting skills will either receive drops as they are now or purchase them from other players on the broker. Wotcha thinks?
It's pretty normal to spend more time harvesting than crafting, although it helps if you're levelling different crafters together. I always harvest all the nodes and overall get 2-3 loams to every hard metal. Luckily I only need the metal for an armourer as I don't have a weaponsmith, and the loams get used by my alchemist, jeweller, provisioner and tinker.
Spyderbite@Venekor wrote: I really thought that this was how it was already. I can take my t8 harvester to a lower level tier and I gain a lot more rares then if I brought one that is at that level harvesting....
Elorah wrote: Yah.. I thought it was as well. But, I think it is just random across the board and no matter how high your harvesting skill is, everyone is a victim of the RNG. For example, my level 30/32 harvested EL in the limited areas that she could due to the difficulty of the aggro spawn in the zone, and after 30 minutes walked out with 4 feysteel clusters. However, my main who is maxed out in all his harvesting skills can spend as many as 3 days without nabbing a feysteel cluster.. and then the next week hit one on every third ore node. Go figure.
Spyderbite@Venekor wrote: That is how it works, but the RNG is still a fickle mistress even if you have a higher chance of obtaining a rare.
Earar wrote: In my experience, harvesting for iron is easiest in the Commonlands. Especially in the north across the top of the map, but really all over. The terrain is savannah, you can see teh nodes from far off, and there are a lot of them. The ore-to-loam ratio in all tiers is 1:1 consistently. Very small harvest runs may be off a little because of the RNG, but pretty uniformly, you get equal amounts of ore and loam as the number of nodes harvested increases. I know this because I use a little Harvesting plug-in to the free utility Advanced Combat Tracker that parses out harvested items. To prove this ratio, I parsed some harvesting, and my full results are reported here. Meanwhile, for T2, here's the parses: To make harvesting easier, you should see about getting some of the very useful player-made harvesting tools. Woodworker-Crafted Harvesting Tools Once you level to 20 you can start using the woodworker-made harvesting tools. Ash wood tools - require adventure or crafting level of 20 or higher. Ash Pick -- Reduces harvest time for mining by 0.5 seconds Ash Shovel -- Reduces harvest time for gathering by 0.5 seconds Ash Fishing Pole -- Reduces harvest time for fishing by 0.5 seconds Ash Trap -- Reduces harvest time for trapping by 0.5 seconds Ash Saw -- Reduces harvest time for foresting by 0.5 seconds Briarwood tools - require adventure or crafting level of 30 or higher. Briarwood Pick -- Reduces harvest time for mining by 1.0 second Briarwood Shovel -- Reduces harvest time for gathering by 1.0 second Briarwood Fishing Pole -- Reduces harvest time for fishing by 1.0 second Briarwood Trap -- Reduces harvest time for trapping by 1.0 second Briarwood Saw -- Reduces harvest time for foresting by 1.0 second Teak wood tools - require adventure or crafting level of 40 or higher. Teak Pick -- Reduces harvest time for mining by 1.5 seconds Teak Shovel -- Reduces harvest time for gathering by 1.5 seconds Teak Fishing Pole -- Reduces harvest time for fishing by 1.5 seconds Teak Trap -- Reduces harvest time for trapping by 1.5 seconds Teak Saw -- Reduces harvest time for foresting by 1.5 seconds Sandalwood tools - require adventure or crafting level of 50 or higher. Sandalwood Pick -- Reduces harvest time for mining by 2 seconds Sandalwood Shovel -- Reduces harvest time for gathering by 2 seconds Sandalwood Fishing Pole -- Reduces harvest time for fishing by 2 seconds Sandalwood Trap -- Reduces harvest time for trapping by 2 seconds Sandalwood Saw -- Reduces harvest time for foresting by 2 seconds Tinker-Crafted Harvesting Tools If you level your crafting, there are also tinker-made harvesting tools. Miscalibrated tools - require crafting level of 30 or higher. Miscalibrated Automated Pickaxe - Reduces the harvest time for mining by 1.0 seconds. Increases Mining skill of caster by 10.0 Miscalibrated Automated Shears - Reduces the harvest time for gathering and foresting by 1.0 seconds. Increases Gathering skill and Foresting skill of caster by 5.0 Miscalibrated Automated Watersafe Net - Reduces the harvest time for fishing and trapping by 1.0 seconds. Increases Fishing skill and Trapping skill of caster by 5.0 Calibrated tools - require crafting level of 46 or higher. Calibrated Automated Pickaxe - Reduces the harvest time for mining by 1.5 seconds. Increases Mining skill of caster by 15.0 Calibrated Automated Shears - Reduces the harvest time for gathering and foresting by 1.5 seconds. Increases Gathering skill and Foresting skill of caster by 7.0 Calibrated Automated Watersafe Net - Reduces the harvest time for fishing and trapping by 1.5 seconds. Increases Fishing skill and Trapping skill of caster by 7.0 Overclocked tools - require crafting level of 66 or higher. Overclocked Automated Pickaxe - Reduces the harvest time for mining by 2.5 seconds. Increases Mining skill of caster by 20.0 Overclocked Automated Shears - Reduces the harvest time for gathering and foresting by 2.5 seconds. Increases Gathering skill and Foresting skill of caster by 10.0 Overclocked Automated Watersafe Net - Reduces the harvest time for fishing and trapping by 2.5 seconds. Increases Fishing skill and Trapping skill of caster by 10.0
The main problem for the scarcity of ore nodes, and unfortunately i don't see any solution to that, is the player base as a whole: indeed, most players do harvest *only* the ore nodes, no others. The thing is, distribution of nodes works roughly the following in "standard" zones (i.e. not the new zones where types of nodes are localized like TD, SS, KoS and RoK zones): when a node is harvested, the game determines which new node will spawn with a random (I suppose it's 1/5 for each node, but the proportion may vary). Thus, if someone harvests only ore nodes, in a matter of a few repops, nobody will be able to find a single ore node. This can easily be tested by the way: get into an area with loads of nodes, but no ore node; harvest every single node you can find; in a matter of a few repops, provided nobody is harvesting only ore nodes that spawn in the area, you'll find that ore nodes are as common as others (even better, you can get area pops with much more ore nodes than other types). Sadly, people still keep harvesting only ore nodes, and mess the harvesting for everyone else on the server, while, at the same time, not even gaining time to get their XXX ore extracts or XXX ore rares, because they spend loads of time finding that next ore node... Even worse, obviously harvest botters do the same (i.e. harvesting only ore nodes for the most parts). Of course, there's the reason why people harvest only ore nodes, and that most likely is the only real thing we can work on: ore products are used way too much in comparison to other products. And that, at common AND rare levels. The weaponsmith changes will help a little on the common plan, as they now use way less ore. Doing the same with armourers (reducing the use of ore clusters, and increasing the use of fuel as a counterpart) would help even more. Now on the rares, well, I admit I've not much ideas to change that (though, 12 classes using the loam for their spells, 12 classes using the ore iron for their armours, and lots of classes using the ore iron for their weapons is wayyyy too much). Maybe a (partial) solution to that would be to have a distinct node for loams? (although on lower tier, nobody would harvest loams, because few people make scouts/fighters adept IIIs on lower tier, and loams are scarcely used in regular crafting...) Ideally, we would need to "educate" most harvesters in EQ2, but that is an impossible mission (most of the time, even after explaining the situation, guys will still harvest ore nodes only, and mess everything for others... sometimes worse: coming to an area where a thorough harvester is officing, harvesting everything, and then harvest the ore nodes the other harvester has made pop through his complete harvest...). Just my 2c
Nifnif@Lucan DLere wrote: Hehe.. I call these my fan club. Cause they'll follow me around an area and wait for the nodes to respawn behind me because I do in deed harvest every single node like a locust working through a zone. XD
I spent 13 hours yesterday harvesting Ruins of Karana (love that place), and crafting to bump my chars towards 30, the ore/loam ratio was much more evenly split. However, having said that, the ore/loams were the only ones I came back with less than a full stack of each time, so, I think it is just that in certain areas, the nodes are further apart, so today I am off to find a more ore nodes
It is sad, that obviously the respawn cannot be based on what is already there (harvest on ore node leads to a repop of an ore node) or the node distribution cannot be changed to be in line with the later expansions...
