Selling Loot Rights

Sorry but it was really hard to understand the poor grammar and English in the original post. Is selling loot right (SLR) against the terms of the game & will get your account banned? Is SLR when you kill something & then advertise in /auction for someone to come in & claim it?

SLR is not something that will get you banned. Is it healthy for the game itself ? Of course not. This system enables people with more time/money to set up a self controlled army ( let's just ignore the fact you can't really control more then 3 toons self sufficient and without help of 3d party software, despite DB's EULA) to run content that was designed to be bested by multiple individuals.
The sole reason for someone to attempt to kill encounters that were designed to be killed by a grp of indiviudals, is to make a profit.

However, the game designers have created a system where a botter can sell items for in game pixel money, and also provided something called Krono that can be bought for real money, and traded for virtual money. So this system perpetuates itself - people that want lots of virtual plat but can't generate it on their own, will pay DB hard cash for a virtual item they then sell for lots of virtual cash. They botters get their plat, and buy Kronos to sub their bot army.

A self sustaining cycle ! The ones benefiting from this are the ones trying to make money ( DB, legit, they own the game) and botters ( the scum of the earth. Unfortunately because money rules the world, not banned from the gaming world). So botters can play for free, because they provide DB with actual money - the fact that those paying for Kronos just convert it to in-game money plays a minor role in this masquerade.

I wish i still had to pay real 15 bucks a month to play, if it meant DB would have enough staff to deliver a good old mmorpg like i got to know em when i was growing up. I used to pay 100 - 200$ just for the internet connection, and still thought 15 dollars a month is cheap. going to the movies once a month would cost me more, and that was like 120 min entertainment at best ( minus the sucky frive to and from the location)

Ever since the game went FTP it just declined in overall quality, and i also barely ever had to pay real money for gold sub cause i could just buy krono's with my accumulated wealth since 2004. But i never used a second account to do that. It's just cheating, you can't control 12+ toons yourself to beat raid enocunters. Beating a dead horse i know. Just sometimes wish devs had the balls to stand up for their work. But obv it's all about the Benjamin...

Will the people complaining about SLR be the same people that will complain about how they can't find people with good gear for heroic content if SLR ever actually gets shut down some how?
How does this affect any one? Aside from some people having plat and some having people in gear to group with... I've never bought gear since I find it difficult to trust people to give me an item after handing over my plat, but I still can't understand how it's a problem (other than the few scammers you hear about. THAT should be a perma ISP ban, IMHO. We don't want their typein game or IRL). o.0

There were a LOT more bots before it was FTP. Remember the reason why they invented the spam filter? Remember trying to harvest rares in those days? @.@ Frikkin bots methodically going node to node, even if you were already harvesting that node, same pattern over and over.

Wrong approach here imo; If it was impossible to sell items to non-participients of the battle, there would obviously be more people partaking in the process of forming groups to run zones.

Because right now, those that running a bot army and essentially soloing heroic zones, have zero interest in grouping with anyone but themselves.

Sure, if for some magical reason trading heirloom drops became impossible, you'd hear the botters complain and threatening to leave the game. But they wouldn't. Botters have a sick disease that will make them just find the next best loophole where they can exploit the game core and enrichen themselves. They don't want to play by the rules, they want to find the flaws and manipulate them to their own advantage. Unfortunately in this case it aligns with the money hunger of the game creators themselves. A perfect marriage.

From 2004-2006 i can't really say i had griefa with harvesting bots. getting spammed with tells is also in no way, shape or form comparable to actual botters that clear zones, sell items and affect game and economy.

And actually, with SoE at the helm, petitions and reports were handled swiftly, obvious bots got removed within an hour. 2006 onwards i played on pvp server so i just killed passive bots farming places - non issue whatosever.

Lots of people say who cares if someone bots instances, it doesn't affect you since it's not contested zones. They don't interfere with your gaming experience. So shortsighted and simpleminded....try to see the big picture perhaps ! your 10 gold earning from active hunting are meaningless is someone goes to sleep, leaves toon online on bot mode, wakes up and has bags filled with body drops that sell for 100x more then your 10g earnings.
It also destroys a core value of these game types - to group with other people, kill stuff, get loot. Why do that, if you can do it on your own, and instead of rolling vs 5 other people, EVERYTHING that drops is yours and your alone.
Developers should have an interest to stop this, if not for money, then for the sake of the gaming world.

I remember in EQ1 years ago as I was running around Neriak, there was a dark elf at the forge who then suddenly vanished without casting a spell and then reappeared at the forge. I tried talking to him but no response. I put in a petition about suspect activities (teleporting without casting a spell, any spell gave off a certain color based on what it was doing.) I saw him the next day, still doing whatever so I decided to see if there was someone at the keyboard. Knowing that if you put in the wrong component into a crafting device, it wont do the recide, so I put a rusty dagger into the forge while he was gone. he appeared and just stood there... and stood there... and stood there. no response to my tells or talking to him, using his name. I eventually commented about it on the forums to be told that there was a crafting bug, where the components crafted into an item was worth much more than the total cost of the components, which was not how it normally went. Many people found out about it and botted to make LOTS of money and started buying up everything good in the Bazaar... and so people raised prices since there was lots of money available to many people.

Lots of accounts got banned... but much of the money remained, most servers still are overloaded with money from those days and it has only got worse. I have seen kronos for sale for over 2 million on some of the servers. So yet, cheaters will cheat. Though they get banned, the smart ones will have moved much of their wealth to keep using it once they are "caught".

I am sure you do ... in case you did not know..
Supporting servers that are hosting game have it's cost and you are not paying but subs like me do. Fixing bugs, keep game afloat, developing new x-packs is not cheap so F2P should be gone for good. If one can't afford 12.99/month they probably better off getting some RL job. Game should be moving in opposite direction - heirloom tag and attune should be gone like dinosaurs

You don't need a bot program to auto harvest btw, nor did you ever need one. SLR is truly the only thing holding this game together at this point. The egotistical player has shut out the new/returning player that doesn't meet their standards. Groups wouldn't suffer anymore than they do now from shutting out SLR. People have to work more than before. They have different attitudes (more along the lines of I want X item with very minimal work so I can "enjoy" the game) than previously also.

Plain and simple it won't do any good to shut out the bots or SLR at this point. We passed that mark about 5-7 years ago depending on who you talk to. The racing crew lost all but 6 guys. They are enough to keep the car going around the track but not good enough to get the car back on the track in time to compete for higher positions. When will people open some eyes and realize this. All complaining does is give people in the forums something to argue about.

This thread is so boring. Someone needs to make a less boring thread for me to read.

Well written response.

However you, like some on here really are making a lot of connections and conclusions that don't really exist.

Bots and SLR have very little connection anymore.. At least on AB they don't. The only zone that could possibly require some kind of BOT group is reavers challenge.

SLR might discourage grouping in that some people who normally might group SLR... However some people wouldn't even form groups without SLR because there would be little point to group once you had what you needed. So it's at worst a wash.. and more likely SLR actually keeps interest in heroic content going.

SLR is good for the game. Please keep it.

Edited..responded to the wrong poster

Okey here is more about use of IoR system
in the KA x-pack you have multiple layers of gear separate by resolve (basically progression goes as following - on-land/tymonimum keys - 5 resolve, Solo/AS - 7 resolve, T1 dungeons/Weekly Solo quests/PQ uncommon -9 resolve, T2 dungeons - 11 resolve, T3 dungeons/T1-T2 raids/shadow quartz keys - 14 resolve, T3 raids/rare loot from boss T3 dungeon - 17 resolve
Let say you acquired with group via NBG some 11 resolve legs or boots and in few days you got via shadow quartz keys same piece with 14 resolve .. in current situation you have nothing else to do but transmute very decent but outdated 11 resolve gear ... instead in free trade open market realm you would simple sell it on broker and make someone happy to buying it

Actually it is not obvious that the net number of people forming groups to run zones would be higher if there were no SLR. It would be accurate to say that there would be some individuals who would group more if they could not buy gear but there would also be individuals that would group less without SLR. Unfortunately there is no way of telling if more people overall would group if they did away with SLR so it is an invalid argument against it.

That is perhaps the worse example of why botting is harmful that I've ever seen. People have millions of plat and you are worried about botters getting vendor trash while afk? While I don't agree with botting I think you over estimate the effect it has on the game. Getting rid of SLR which is beneficial for many people in order to get rid of a few botters seems like a bad idea to me. If somebody wants to bot a group around to farm plat then oh well, at least that is 6 more accounts that are generating revenue for DBG.

I disagree...you have no clue what you are talking about....

explain how SLR keeps interest in heroics?...lmao

Explain how it is good for the game?

Between your first and third post did you forget you already commented and quoted on the same post?

Edit: There is a happy median I believe when it comes to SLR. As a raider I know there is gear I don't need, but it is nice to have a stash of plat to invest into my gear, whether it is infusing, buying stuff for alts, etc. The thought of making plat keeps me interested in running heroics as people are interested in running heroics for gear. If it wasn't for plat, I wouldn't even run heroics. The same can be said about running groups for items you want. Eventually you will either get bored of running the same content over and over or you will get the item(s) you want and lose interest in them too.

Honestly, people's attitudes are why people don't want to group. Have you seen general channel? Not exactly the most charming people.
Last group I was in (aside from a friend or my hubby) was when Great Divide came out. Tank was a complete ******, kept going AFK, we asked him to at least let us know.. so he did... just as we started the timed part of pools.
Last time I used voice chat for a PUG (skype a couple expansions before the great divide came out) I was subjected to the most vulgar crap I'd ever heard. (For some reason, guys think once they hear a female voice, it MUST be the sex hotline they see adds for and probably call regularly).

You want a sick disease? How about people who complain about things that don't actually affect them. Or people that want every one to be forced to play their way, just because. XD I've been told I play the game wrong because I just decorate and solo/molo for appearance gear and furniture. I have my own personal guild just so I can decorate a tier 4 (Which some people think should ONLY be for raid guilds). There are people that think every one should be forced into large guilds.

IMHO people should get over themselves and earn friendships and group mates instead of trying to rule the world and force every one to do things one way.

People who make their own group probably wouldn't want to group with you any way. They prefer their own company, so let them play their way. They pay for expansions and support the game. What is the problem?