Remove CHARM From PVP for the sake of everything plz

Siphar wrote:

Charm has very little impact on pvp? LOL if that was true you wouldnt be here QQ'n it up so much on how you need it now would you... If it had little impact on pvp SOE wouldnt have adjusted it countless times already. This has got to be the most adjusted ability in pvp ever, how ignorant of you to think it has little impact in pvp, when in fact it has the most impact in pvp. Thus this thread....
11page thread on a random whine? Great question but 7pages of this thread is all your post, actually you have posted more in this thread than everyone else... Almost combined. gg
Leave mezz alone remove Charm from pvp targets. Wanta use charm in pvp, charm a npc and send it to attack me.

Siphar wrote:

NO impact on PvP? Seriously Siphar?
What happens if the two troubs in one group (since this is a common practice now because of its power) charm the only two healers in the other group? THAT GROUP is dead, no ifs, ands or buts about it. There is no defense to it other than hope one resists, so you can cure the other one, and quite frankly, I've NEVER resisted charm, ever.
You can't cure charm if the healers are the ones charmed. It is Russia Roulette for a mage to get the right Arcane when dispelling, so they have a 1 in 10 chance of getting it.
That proc out of Obelisk of Blight is trash. I had it on my Guardian, and it might have proc'd once in every fifth fight with an enchanter, and when it did proc, it only increased my survivability by ONE SECOND, hardly noticeable. I don't think I ever came close to killing an enchanter, yet enchanters could burn down my 14,000 hit points, with 11,000 mental resists in 3-4 seconds, without breaking a sweat. It isn't much better on my Assassin either. The last enchanter I attacked on my Assassin killed me in two seconds, my target DROPPING THREE TIMES, and I had used a miracle to prevent his CC. So no, Enchanters are no where near to being cannon fodder without their CC. Considering I burn down most healers in 5 seconds on my Assassin, and most scouts in 2-3 seconds, the enchanter is fine.
Enchanters are doing great now, and Charm is overpowered in PvP. That's why you're seeing Troubadors being made at the rate you're seeing Shadow Knights being made. It's just plain sick how powerful charm is.

Siphar wrote:

I wear ROK raid gear without any crit mit (I have 8%!) on my enchanter.
No dispersion, displacement, or any stoneskin effects.
Yet I have no troubles.

Siphar wrote:

I don't know about QQ'ing or whatever I just was saying charmed for 8 minutes seemed like something wasnt right there.
Anyway they have that level 50 priest wrist piece from the City pvp merchants that resist a bunch of things for like 15 seconds or so. I was just saying something to that nature would be cool for mezz or charm at T8. Its not like you wouldnt have to earn it anyway. You would still have to get the tokens to get it. Im sure there could be better ideas out there for this but this was my suggestion.

Chords@Nagafen wrote:

Without any stoneskin or crit mit gear you would last all of 3 seconds if you were lucky against my predator. Unless you were in a full grp... ofc

Cyst@Venekor wrote:

There are MUCH stronger duo's than two troubs. I would love to see 2 troubs beat any healer and fighter. i.e. Templar and SK would crush any 2 troub.
You may consider charm OP from a troub perspective, but I can honestly say - it is far from OP from enchanters. The resist rate is horrible, the duration sucks and it takes them out of combat.
And to correct you, enchanters when played well with decent gear can now somewhat compete with some other classes. They still get stomped by a wide range of classes constantly i.e. any well played crusader, melee spec cleric or brawler. Before they were always free tokens/updates, now some of them can play and have gear to fight back - and they are OP apparently.

Paill@Nagafen wrote:

Never did I ever state that I need "charm" to be successful in PvP. Infact I rarely use it, only in grp vs. grp pvp, where it is resisted a lot more than it lands, and when it does land, it is always swiftly cured.
I think you are exaggerating about the "countless" adjustments. Just like you seem to exaggerate all of your thoughts.
7 pages from me? another exaggeration. I have only responded to other peoples comments in a civil manner with my thoughts from another players perspective regarding you wanting to remove (not fix) charm from PvP.
I'm glad we agree on mez, and as far as charm goes, i'd love to see you play an enchanter vs. me and charm a mob for 10 seconds! to fight me. You would be dead before your charmed mob even got to me. And even if you mez'd me, then stuck your pet on me, I would 2 shot the pet, or wait 5 seconds for it to attack you, or just ignore its 100 dps and kill u. In short - what you proposed is a very weak tactic in pvp from an enchanters perspective.
QQ

Lol At first I didnt care about this issue until my toon was sent into a mob of triple ups, I think a coe did it tgh, i dont know if a troub can pet charm you. Whoever it was I didnt even get time to see it. I also thought it only lasted a short time. I was locked down as a pet long enough to be sent into mobs melee them and die to them. Very annoying. Concidering that there should atleast be a pot to cure charm, you get absolutely no control for a very long duration. Just my opinion.

Siphar wrote:

You know that is because the SK is overpowered, not because Charm is not overpowered.

Guys, let's focus once again. The problem with charm is that it puts a player out of combat. That is what must be fixed.

Morlang@Nagafen wrote:

This is a blatant lie. You cannot give players orders when you charm them in PvP. The only way to get them to do anything is if you (the person casting the charm) are attacked.

Paikis wrote:

There is some way to get charmed players to attack, I have been sent to attack the grey skeletons in the ruins near kp docks just so I would have to run the whole way back to my group when the charm expired. Going way way back I was also once forced to attack a guard in qeynos back when tinkered charm worked in pvp.
Either way I dont think charm needs a pot cure, its the only effective cc effect left for those cc classes to use. Between signets, potions, miracles, and everything else all the other effects are easily countered.

Paikis wrote:

People with too much time on their hands have, in the past, had a mob on the trouby, the trouby charms me and runs away towards the mob a fury had rooted way far away... then the fury casts Pact of Cheetah at the exact moment i get charmed and I run off toward the mob that is attacking the troub at 100 run speed, way far from my group, and of course the charm breaks and im in no mans land and i get wtfpwned by everyone outside my healer range.....
Exploit? A bit... , its working as intended now, because charm breaks combat... which should be fixed, in which case charming me would put them in PVP combat and they would not be able to use Pact, but everything else would be ok...... they just developed a strategy and implemented it without a hitch... People confuse exploits with strategy all the time...
Charming a tank or charming 2 healers is strategy... if your nubby group cant counter that, then should you deserve to win the fight anyways? Charm = arcane... arcane can be cured by 50% of the classes in the game... If you are running around in all SK groups, dont get mad at the people charming you, get mad at yourself for not bringing a few mages with arcane cures... and get mad at your tanks for not taunting the troubys off the healers... roll around with scrubs who cant taunt and cant cure arcane = you deserve to lose TBH...
You fight any good group and toss a charm on any one or even two of the players and it will instantly get cured off.... its a non issue...
Ask yourself these questions:
if your tank gets charmed and hes not instantly cured, whos fault is that again?
If they have developed a strategy to charm your 2 healers and your tank at the exact same time, then who had a better strat and who got outsmarted again?
If you roll randomly into a group and didnt bother looking that it had 2 troubies and a coercer in it and you / your tank just randomly start attacking people without thinking things through and developing a start on who to get a lockdown on first, who's fault is that again?
If your tank is focusing on DPS rather then aggro control in PVP, whos fault is that again?
If your Healers are focusing on doing DPS rather then curing, whos fault is that again?
If your mages dont use their arcane cure they are given, whos fault is that again?
If you dont use signets and potions to avoid all other control effects while someone is attempting to charm your group members, whos fault is that again?

The ONLY fix that needs to happen is that charm needs to not break combat... NOTHING else is broken with it... Its a charm, you are under the control of the caster, you are a puppet, puppets cant do things for themselves... you cant cure charm off of yourself, because your not in control of yourself.... you cant use a signet to go immune to it, your not incontrol of yourself... Same thing with mez, and it SHOULD be the same thing with stun / stifle / daze... if you are unable to cast a combat art / spell, you shouldnt be able to cure anything unless your class is specifically designed to do that with an ability they have... if you want to make yourself immune to that before the fact, go ahead, pot away, but once your under the control of any crowd control, you shouldnt be able to self cure anything if you arent able to click on an attack or a heal....

"Either way I dont think charm needs a pot cure, its the only effective cc effect left for those cc classes to use."

So there's cures, god spells, abilities against everything anyone can cast on you, except Charm....why should that be ok in any way again ?

In any case, i can live with the occasional Charm, i think it's nice tactics and not game breaking overpowered like some other issues in pvp universe....like Crusaders in general, or the insanity of Enchanter reactives and procs in general; just today this illu spots me before i come into combat range - he doesnt even bother to mez me, just cast something funny so i actually have him in target but when i try to use any CA i get "illegal target" message, he put one or 2 reactives on me, casts one spell that does 300 dmg and thirteen (13!!) extra damage procs hit me as well, leaving me with 20% hp, next 0.5 sec spell fries me. yay for balanced pvp. he is illegal target but can blow me up, fun times.

Back on topic: dont make charm take anyone out of pvp combat. would be nice.

Proud_Silence wrote:

Im not sure what that means but i'm assuming you ran into a coercer not a illusionist. Amnesia is a forced detarget for a specific duration. It's probably what caused the "illegal target" because you probably weren't targetting him.

Paikis wrote:

I have no reason to lie, and yet I also know four other people it happen to, so beleive what you want but do not call me a lier.

Morlang@Nagafen wrote:

If you charm someone (as an enchanter anyway) and you are attacked, the charmed player will defend you - you cannot order them to do anything specifically. Charm lasts several seconds max in my experience.

Proud_Silence wrote:

Proc don't crit anymore, and scouts get access to a lot of proc too you know, in many cases - they have more than enchanters.
The coercer (if they used a rective) cast their de-target spell on you > amnesia which prevents you from targeting anything. Or they cast thought snap on you which locked you to a fighter. Nothing "funny" about this abilities.
One or two reactives? hostage and spell curse + puppets (sets off hostage up to 8 procs over a few seconds) and then cast a spell which trigger spell curse. maybe it was tyr. mind? similar to spell curse. 13 sounds like a lot but possible if you are very unlucky and have low resists. talisman procs 3 times btw for a single proc.
This fight would have taken 5-10 seconds. The enchanter should have been dead after 3.
Maybe it's because I play an enchanter, but when i fight them using my scout, I litterally never lose - ever.

Siphar wrote:

I would really like to see you prove that one.

"Im not sure what that means but i'm assuming you ran into a coercer not a illusionist. Amnesia is a forced detarget for a specific duration. It's probably what caused the "illegal target" because you probably weren't targetting him"

It was Froglegg, whatever enchanter type he is. I never talked about illusionist, i refered to enchanters
I know what a detaunt is omg, there's some with and withot duration on it.
The whole reason why i said funny was exactly because i had him in target all the time, standing right in front of him, but unable to use any CA, and NO i was not stifled or stunned or mezzed or charmed, i was running the 1min godspell mischief maker.

@Syphar: i thought you were a good assassin, but appearantly you never met any good Enchanter or you're always running around with help, cause you most definately do not win every fight against Enchanter.
Regarding the procs: who mentioned anything about them critting or not ?
So what if someone else might have more procs on gear, assassin doesn't have reactives to cast , what's your point ?
5 - 10 seconds fight against scout as an Enchanter ? yeah if he's bothered to mez you first and then load you up slowly. Froglegg will blow you up in 5sec and less without having to mez you. Yes you Siphar.
Even if you get the jump on him, stifle, numbing strike - by now he CC you.

I kill the average enchanter with 2 or 3 CA + autoattack too, you know. But the good ones are really hard to kill 1 vs 1 if you don't have some nifty gadget against CC effects. Freedom pot only helps so much...