371 random t10 commons refined = 8 high quality slag, 363 low quality slag. 0 rares. 10 brellium clusters = 7 refined brellium clusters, 3 high quality slag. Please feel free to post your own results.
Copied from my earlier post in another thread: My roomie, who works on a production line and is used to mindnumbingly repetitive tasks, finished refining her THIRTEENTH STACK of common metals (ore, amethysts, and iridium - with four stacks of each time to get a good sample size) since the servers came up this morning, minus the brief downtime to "fix" the broker. This is what she has as of this moment: Just over twelve stacks of low quality slag 37 High quality vendor trash slag ONE purified tungsten ore NO ONE can tell me that ONE rare in 2,500 refines is acceptable... Recent update: The bad part is, she's still been chigging away at it (I think it's a personal mission to her now) and after SIXTEEN STACKS of raw harvestables, she's at: Just under 16 stacks of low quality slag 50 HQ vendor trash slag and.......... <drum roll> Yep, STILL ONE RARE purified tungsten. May the fleas of a thousand camels infest whoever nerfed Refining, and double that for anyone who whined that it was too overpowered...
UPDATE: Roomie said her goal was to refine one thousand of each raw harvestable metal (ore, amethyst, and iridium) and one thousand swamp ash lumber. Luckily for her, she says that doing tasks like this are almost akin to yoga or meditation for her. Do what you love, eh? Anyway, she has after nearly 12 hours, accomplished her goal. Would anyone care to guess how many rares she got from the five points she spent on her tradeskill prestiege END TREE ability.......? Well, here's what she wound up with (aside from carpal tunnel): Just over TWENTY STACKS of low quality slag 72 High Quality vendor trash slag And........... wait for it............. ONE F'ING PURIFIED TUNGSTEN ORE FOUR THOUSAND refines and ONE PURIFIED RARE?! Are you kidding me?! There are no words to express how utterly infuriated I am (and she is) over this ridiculous NERF to refining! Did some "cool kid" pout too much because non-1337 people were finally getting the ability to get their own purified rares to make some refined armor and weapons? WHAT is your justification for this?
Really, I'm not trolling here, but why is this not acceptable? Getting a rare out of refining a common wasn't even an advertised feature of the expac. Den momma didn't even know it was possible until after release. Its supposed to be a WTFOMGCOOL! moment, like a Favor of Innovation counter while tradeskilling (which I have seen 3 of, ever, on 16 max level crafters in 9 years, btw). Maybe you should detail exactly what you expect here, so we can look at your expectations in total and see if they make sense as a group. Because one by one, your posts look like you just want more of whatever is up for discussion.
How about if we just go by exactly what the game gives us: Refine (Rank 5) Refines raw harvestables into pure harvestables. An equipment item crafted with a pure primary component will have higher attributes. Higher tiers of this ability will lower the cooldown. Where does it say that it's supposed to be WTFOMGCOOL rare like favor of innovation? It doesn't even state that it's supposed to be a STUPIDLY SMALL percentage (as in 0.000026%) "chance". It says it refines raw harvestables into purified ones. It does NOT say it "only refines rare raw harvestables". So I think it's pretty dang easy to see where anyone would get the impression that it's not supposed to be one rare in FOUR THOUSAND refines. Also, being an end tree ability with max points assigned to it, do you HONESTLY believe Refine is worth a crap?
It turns rares into purified rares at a reasonable rate. That's what the ability is for. It also purifies commons into something vendors will buy- turning something you couldn't sell into something you can. The fact that you can rarely get a purified rare out of a common is a _gift_. Not something that you should expect with any probability, and I still don't see where you're entitled to it.
Really? So you got that straight from the dev's mouth, eh? Because I haven't read that anywhere, ESPECIALLY the friggin ability description window!!! WHERE does it say that I'm supposed to bow down and kiss some unnamed one's toes because I can now click SIX HUNDRED TIMES to get 24 silver? Thanks, but I'll pass, and I certainly wouldn't consider that a gift. More like a punishment, if not just a complete and utter waste of time and tradeskill prestiege points. And there is no way in Hades that I'm going to risk losing normal rares for the "reasonable" (reasonable to WHOM???) chance of getting a purified. Especially now that the harvesting goblin has been nerfed into oblivion too. Furthermore, NO ONE said I feel entitled to ****! I feel entitled to know, EXACTLY, what the chances are so I can determine for myself whether or not it is worth the time and effort for the product. Maybe the developers need to change the wording of the spell description. Because NOWHERE does it say "oh, by the way, this ability can only be used on rare harvestables to return a purified rare." Information is not a bad thing. They should start using it in this game.
I agree with sideshowbob on this one, this ability was barely worth it before the nerf, click your mouse 4 times to refine ONE harvested material and have a slim chance at getting a refined rare.... now post nerf is repeat that click 16,000 times and get One rare. 12 hours of game time, 16,000 mouse clicks, 4,000 materials, & 20 AA points to produce 1 rare?..... Worthless. If I spent 12 hours out harvesting I would come home with around 100 rares give or take depending on how nice the RNG was to me that day. I would think that reasonably one stack of commons could refine into one simple rare then again have the 60/40 chance of refining that rare into a purified. Also refining commons should be done a stack at a time rather than one at a time.
The fact that you can refine the common raw materials into rares should be considered a bonus, if you want to refine something you generally start with what it is and improve it, like refining oil, you start with crude oil, and still end with the same oil, it has just been processed or changed. Refining a raw material, into a rare which is a completely different material is more like the task of everyone trying to turn lead into gold. Refining commons a stack at a time would be rediculous and wouldn't help anything, especially if they somehow decided to increase the rate to a noticeable amount. They already have the gathering goblin which I know, people are also complaining about it's not bringing back any rares, it's a chance to bring back rares, when you have to do nothing more then then hail, click on a box, and then 2 hours later hail again to retrieve said rares. Harvest the rares, these are meant to supplement harvesting, not completely take the place of people ever going out and harvesting as the primary source.
May not be so bad if it auto-refined a full stack so you do them 4 clicks and get 200 refines out of it and the slag/HQ slag auto-stacks up so you click 3 times to recieve your stuff. 4 clicks to start. 3 clicks to cliam. 7 clicks total per stack of 200 refinements. Perhaps the low rate may not seem so atrocious then. The rate for raw -> rare is supposed to be reasonably low but the rate for rare -> rare needs to be relatively high. Just my 2 cents, I experiment which right now returns the right amount for the difficulty. Refining coupled with the goblin nerfs just returned rares back to what they were... rare. I am sorry that the old values even made it to live. As someone once posted once something goes live they expect it to be permanent.
If I had never been able to refine common materials to obtain rare materials I would not have minded at all. If I could no longer refine common materials to get rares I don't think I would mind very much. SOE are entitled to decide they have made a bad mistake and correct it. But what has been done suggests it is only a small mistake and they are tinkering with the fine tuning. This is not fine tuning. Reducing a 1% (approx) chance to 0.04% chance is a major change, it is taking away a reasonable chance and replacing it with a negligible one. There seem to me to be four resonable options - Allow common materials to be refined to produce only slag. (there may be enough high quality slag to make this worth while) - Allow common materials to be refined and produce purified common materials. (This may be useless, but is sensible) - Allow common materials to be refined to produce rare materials, with a low percentage sucess rate, say 0.25% - Allow common materials to be refined to produce purified rare materials with a (very) low percentage sucess rate say 0.1% There is no reason for SOE not to pubish the sucess rate, we can work it out by refining enough materials (assuming we can stand the excitement.)
CoE had already screwed over the tradeskillers of this game with hardly no new content such as quest's and lack of recipes for some classes namely the carpenters... but I had thought the prestige AA was the best thing out of CoE and then they go nerf that so tell me Devs, what did you do for Tradeskillers in this expansion that is worth anything now?
More of that "work" thing. I pushed W a while, pressed F a few times, and in an hour, I had 17 rares. I guess I "worked" for them. Maybe we should be running this past the self-appointed, to make sure we worked enough to deserve them. The 3-4 the goblin used to come up with every two hours didn't seem game-breaking in relative terms.
1 rare in 12 hours of gameplay is a reasonable rate? I don't even know what to say to that. Do people actually think about what they post or just cook up any defense they can for the artificially inflated rare?
Feldon I have done it myself, I can verify that his info is close to accurate based on my own results after 4,000 post-nerf refines I got 2 rares.
You are complaining that your chance to turn lead into gold or water into wine isn't better... Gimme money for nothing and chicks for free please.
I kinda feel this is very much what people were getting out of Refining. A Rare for a Raw is like lead to gold. People just got used to and liked the inflated stats that mistakenly imo went to live. Prior to these AA we had to harvest rares at roughly 1% (Arbitrary number) chance any time we whacked a node. People just got privileged by these and now that they can't lick the gold plated lolly they are getting mad. I harvest my rares still to this day or belly up and buy em from someone else who did. Edit: I wrote "like" instead of "lick"
No I am complaining that an ability that reads: Refines raw harvestables into pure harvestables, does not in fact do that. It should read; refines raw harvestables into slag with a ultra rare chance of receiving a pure harvestable. So send out your goblin again and talk to me about getting money for nothing and chicks for free. My complaint is the effort is not worth the reward, if I spend the same amount of time out harvesting myself I get 100X the reward as refining, it takes less effort, and I spend fewer AA points to boost my chances. My point is simple refining was barely worth it before the nerf and is now completely useless, especially for an endline ability.
Um yeah. There were many interviews with the devs given before release and during beta. Nami Denmother recorded many of them, and transcribed many of them for everyone to read. Most of them are still up on EQ2 crafters. Many of them are also up on EQ2wire and other sites. If you are trying to take a two-line blurb and substitute that for all the dev-speak which is out there, then you are even lazier than I thought. No waitaminit, that's not right. You're unlazy enough to click stacks of commons hundreds of times in hopes of turning commons into rares. So given this juxtaposition in your attentiveness, I really don't know what to say about you. The refine button when used on commons is INTENDED to turn commons into vendor-sellable junk. Sometimes you get lucky and your common turns into HQ junk, which sells for a lot more than the common would on the broker. Sometimes you get ridiculously lucky and it turns into a purified rare. I reiterate- not even Nami Denmother knew that this existed, and she has her halfling fingers deeper in the pie than anybody. For you to expect that as the standard practice is amazing. Um, yeah Feldon. How many hours of gameplay does it take to see a Favor of Innovation tradeskill reaction? That's the only other psuedo-random event driven mechanism to turn commons into rares, so it is reasonable to assume absent other data that these should be similar. Why do you think they should not be similar? It's not my fault he used an amazingly low-probability event trying over and over and over to get a rare. How many rares could he have gotten in 12 hours if he, you know, actually went out and harvested? I could spend 12 hours As far as rares into rares, the rate seems relatively unchanged at between one out of two to one out of three. How is that not reasonable? Doubling the cost of a mastercrafted item in order to change it from near-parity with heroic content to near-parity with raid content from 5 levels ago? Again, this last is what the ability is for, according to interviews, webcasts and transcribed fanfaires. And it's just a fine ability. People who go to skyshrine to grind want MC armor again to wear before they get their drops and dozekar-head gear. Therefore the market says that there is a place in the hierarchy for MC armor. That's rather spiffy considering recent history.[/quote]
Wow, resorting to snide little personal attacks now...? First of all, I stated several times that the tester was my roommate, not me. That still does not make either one of us "lazy". And because we do not spend vast amounts of time lurking on thrid-party sites to gain second-hand information that may or may not be accurate at the time the game is actually launched to live, also does not make us "lazy". I'm venturing a guess that MOST EQ2 players do NOT read those other sites either. They rarely visit the official EQ2 site, much less those others. They rely on descriptions in the actual game. Your snottyness aside, you continue to claim that the refining ability is working "as INTENDED" -- if that is the case, then please go change the wording of the skill description. The vast majority of us who play the actual game as it gets sent to live ARE NOT MIND READERS! We read the spell descriptions, then make decisions based off that whether or not the ability as described is worth the points, time and effort.. And stop throwing up the strawman argument of Nami Denmother, as if they are some omnipotent god. Yes, that person helps test. News flash: Testers do not know everything! And the fact that they did not even know Refining produced rares from common raws just goes to show you that even "godlike" testers can miss things. Just because your strawman example missed something in beta does not automatically make it UNINTENDED. It simply means they missed that part of the testing process. [/quote] Another strawman argument and comparing apples to oranges. Favor of Innovation is stated to be a very rare occurance. Refining, as it is currently stated, IS NOT. There is nothing in the Refining description that even mentions the word "chance". Change the description or change the results. And yet another strawman argument about "how many rares could he (SHE) have gotten in 12 hours if he (SHE), you know, actually went out and harvested". Stop bringing up irrelevant comparisons. NO ONE stated that refining was supposed to be equal to physically harvesting for rares! I repeat -- NO ONE! My roommate simply spent as much time as she did refining in order to actually test the post-nerf results with a valid sample size. NOT to try and get as many rares as she would have given the same amount of hours spent harvesting. That's just an absurd comparison and argument. And your comment about how it's not your fault she used an amazingly low probability event to try to get a rare... Please show me, again, where it states that Refining is "an amazingly low probability event," because going by what the ability itself states, there is ZERO information to back up that claim. And the little bit thrown in there about refining rares into purified rares -- where has that been mentioned in ANY of these posts regarding refining? I can recall NO ONE discussing the subject, so please stop trying to throw that up as some kind of defense for the nerf to refining common harvestables.
