Heres a few of my thoughts on what I'd like to see change with us in the revamp. Less snares, maybe a root. Give us a couple of snares, but give us other things aswell.. a root (not the one we got from splitpaw) so we can get behind mobs solo, or stop mobs chasig us. Give us a boost to our attack speed and DPS, alot of our damage should come from regular attacks in mellee. Same with assassins.. that should be a predators bread and butter. Let us use some, or all of our bow attacks at point blank range. Being masters of the bow we should be able to use them in close combat. I think those 3 are the main issues. Give us some new abilities, or change some older ones to let us buff our DPS and attack speed.. not just the 2 buffs we have... thats how we should climb the DPs totem .. by melle damage. Thoughts ?
Hi, Well, SoE have stated that with the combat revamp they intend to make autoattack damage 'more meaningful'. Sorry but I can't find the rest of the quote but 'more meaningful' is exact. Not sure exactly what they mean by more meaningful - have to wait and see. A single, decent root would be nice for CC or soloing but I guess they don't want us doing the root n shoot thing. With our avoidance and mitigation it looks like they want us tanking mobs if we are not kiting them. The trouble with PB shots is that effectively it turns us into assassins - except we get the choice as to whether our damage is delivered up close or ranged - and Assassins won't be happy with that Maybe a concentration skill or % damage reduction could be applied for PB shots - but not sure how such a system would work. As for 'a lot of our damage should come from regular attacks in melee' - well sorry but I don't agree. If I had wanted a high damage melee char I would have made an assassin. I deliberately chose a Ranger for the ranged and positional nature of their attacks. Anyway, looking at my first paragraph (and believeing what the Devs' say) it looks like we might be heading there anyway. Having played EQ1 I know that SoE can and will do anything they like with characters. The Ranger in EQ1 had a very blurred role for a long time. Debates and arguments raged on forums for literally years over whether they should be primarily melee or ranged. I hope we don't see that happening to the EQ2 Ranger. Right now their role and damage delivery system seems clear (not perfect, but at least well defined). Anyways, with the combat revamp (presumably) getting closer, we'll know what direction we are headed soon enough. Mirdo Message Edited by Mirdo on 07-25-2005 08:39 AM
One thing I dont personally like about rangers is the fact that so many of our attacks have to be positioned, if we are supposed to be masters of the bow, then we should be able to do the same damage from the front as we do from the back, a few positional attacks are fine, but if I wanted to be doing dmg from the back all the time,........ I would have rolled up an assasin, as the above poster said Secondly I dont think that we should have pb ranged combat, thats why its called ranged, and also rangers are not only known for great ranged combat, but also are known to be skilled swordsman, therefore if I am in the heat of close combat, im going to be using swords, not a bow. Just my 2cp Killa
Hmm. I personally think a point-blank bow attack might be nice, but allowing us to use all of our ranged attacks in melee would be pretty unbalanced. And once you get the hang of finding the sweet-spot, you can essentially use all you ranged attacks in melee anyway. Positional attacks I can understand and accept; that's a halllmark tactic of the predator classes. Those should stay as-is, IMO. I've never had a problem with them as I just spend every battle directly behind the mobs, assisting the tank and looking right at her over the enemy's shoulder. Or between the enemy's legs, as the case maybe - like when fighting level 50 ^^ Defenders of Thyr outside Solusek's Eye. I don't think more or most of our melee damage should come from autoattack, but I'll tell ya, once you get in the higher levels that starts to happen naturally. Especially once you're sporting some haste items (Ancient Slayer's Ring + Flowing Black Silk Sash = 18% haste), you really start to churn out some nice damage just by sitting behind the mob with autoattack running. Especially once you factor in poison, melee procs, self-haste (Honed Reflexes) and amplified DPS (Feral Instinct), the results are actually very noticeable. I definitely agree on making snares and roots more meaningful. Whether that means giving us additional skills or tweaking existing ones, it'd be nice to see some actual effects from all these slow effects that we're supposed to have.
Moorgard has already said that fighters will be losing their innate melee damage bonus, and that we shall be given that, so expect our melee dps to go up. As for point blank, I want it, now. As long as I am not the primary tank/aggro recipient, there is no logical reason why I cannot use a bow next to my enemy. As long as I have room to draw it, I could use it. You cannot say a gun cannot be used PB because it is a ranged weapon, that makes no sense. Ranged, simply means that it can be used at range, not that it has to be used at range. And to head this off before it starts, why do people insist on making ranged more penalized than melee? Last I checked, melee can hit from quite a larger distance than the weapon can actually reach.. talk about a discrepancy in implementation. Perhaps we should petition to have melee attacks more realistic, make everyone get within 3-4 feet of the mob to be able to hit it (sarcasm). Not to mention the near legendary skill mobs must have, to be able to parry so many archery attacks from the front, so much for the speed of the projectile having any relationship to the games combat engine. As for all the positional attacks and stealth required.. man I hope they remove that constraint on some of our attacks. Not all, because it does add some minor flavor, but some. I don't solo outside quests now a days, but it is amazing how much dps we lose if we solo or get aggro. That and I already feel too much like a Rogue.. man I want my EQLive Ranger ported into EQ2s world/ruleset. At any rate, this is a sore spot for me, I am just bewildered that so many people are looking to make things harder for our class when we already have numerous disadvantages. That, and there really is no logic in some of it. Merkades, 50th Ranger. Tradeskills suck, 28th Jeweler.
Yes, but guns don't fire a 3-4 foot bullet out the end either. If I'm standing 3-4 feet behind my target and fire an arrow in it, it'll be sitting a few inches to a foot away when I'm done. To me, at least, that seems kinda silly. I'm of the opinion that NONE of our bow CA's should work within about an 8-10 foot radius. I'm more interested in submerssion and realism than I am being "UBER" though. Having grown up on a 1000acre cattle ranch and growing up with both guns and bows, I can personally attest to the fact that using a bow to shoot something 3-4 feet away is ridiculous. Unless I'm going to use an arrow as a melee weapon, there should be no PB Bow attacks. Blackan - 50 Ranger Dominion - Toxx
Don't want to get everyone's hopes up...but I group regularly with a berserker who managed to get in on the Desert of Flames beta. At least a portion of the combat changes now reside on that server. Don't ask me any specifics, because he was very tight-lipped, but according to what he said he saw in /ooc chat from other rangers, we are going to 'really like' the combat changes. That was all he would say. That being said, I have no problems with a minimum distance to use my bow. That makes sense. When grouped, we have some awesome melee attacks that we can use to make up for that when we get close to the mob, and are behind it. Therein lies my only wish. And that is for one or two high damage frontal attacks(on separate, but long timers) that don't stand such a chance of missing/being blocked or parried. Whether it was a stealth nerf, or the same 40-up difficulties that my fellow rangers have talked about for so long(or maybe I've spec'd my character in some way that leaves her lacking), soloing is becoming increasingly difficult. I gave up on Splitpaw. Probably won't go back except for the group stuff....bah...I'm rambling now... No heals, no super buffs, no controllable pet, nothing extreme. I think one or two high damage attacks that we can use when face to face with the mob would go a long way to making us a viable solo class without having to resort to kiting(which seems to be getting harder, as well). But even this I don't wish for until the combat changes. I really want to see SOE's vision of what we should be in this revamp.
I don't understand people asking to remove the positional/stealth requirement on some skills. I play a level 38 ranger and currently only have 5 skills with requirements like this: Crippling Blade(Stealth and Position), Raven Embers (Stealth), Spring(Stealth), Pouncing Attack (Position), and Sniping Shot (Positon). All the rest of my skills can be used at any time. Granted Crippling Blade and Sniping Shot are hard hitters and I feel helpless when I cannot use them. However, I love the situational aspect of this class. It makes it that much more interesting to play. Mages are boring to me. Sit back and blast. I loving having to know where I am standing and making adjustments in order to be effective. This game is very simple at its core. Auto-attack and click some skills. Adding positional and stealth attacks makes us have to pay attention. The combat is more exciting. For me anyway... Seeing as there are only 5 skills, that I have, which have situational requirements, I do not think it would be necessary to change them. It really isn't too much and it's what makes rangers fun. Granted these requirements should be taken into consideration when comparing Mage DPS to Scout DPS. But seriously I would take less DPS and more involved combat any day. Boruden
From what I've heard (a rumor from a reliable source.. oxymoron, I know), Rangers will be able to Melee and Range attack while standing in the same place. The downside is that all bow attacks will be interrupted if moving. This means: much easier positioning for regular fights (to use both range/melee) but goodbye to kiting. Don't quote me on this, because I dont play on DoF Beta.. just what I have heard.
Personally, i'm not too fond of much of whats been said.... i enjoy playing the rampant ranger diving around mobs while every other class stands around pressing buttons :smileyvery-happy: the positional element and need to find range add an element of thought i've found other classes to be lacking, the where should i stand, whens safe to move out for bow ca's and so fourth issues never being far from any rangers thoughts although the idea of a PB bow shot sounds like it'd be great, i'll think it'll also make it boring something along the lines of a 2mins buff for PB bowing with a 10 min recast that takes 2 conc may work imho, allowing the dps to be kept up in certain situations if PB bowing and static bow shots are the flavour of the upgrade, i fear i'll become rather bored off my characterless ranger :smileysad:
I strongly agree here. Maybe it's just part of playing a kerran ranger, but I move in combat, even when I don't need to! I run up walls, jump over the mob, turn and slash in the air, dive behind them and stealth for a big backstab, then turn and circle as I fire off some bow specials. It's all part of the fun for me. Obviously I sit tight and watch myself when I'm in more dangerous areas (lava bath, anyone?) but I like the freedom of movement that we are allotted in the current system. It sounds like some folks just want their rangers to be more uber and easier to play. I guess I'm just not in that camp; I don't feel like I'm that restrained. Playing my ranger is not hard, it's fun - positional attacks, ranged weaponry and all. If I wanted to stand in one place and click buttons, I'd roll a wizard. I actually enjoy the tactics and demands of playing a ranger. And no, I'm not asking that they make our job harder (still not sure where you saw that, Merkades) just more sensible without compromising the current tactics and combat style that we currently enjoy. And c'mon, people - those of you asking to use melee and ranged attacks from the same spot without moving? YOU CAN. Right now. It's there, in the game, totally possible and easily used. Just get in melee range, back off a bit, and use arts like Sniping / Culling to test your minimum bow range with Lightning Strike / Blazing Thrust to test your maxium melee range. Even if you can't figure out the exact placement, it's just not hard to move 3-5 feet forward or backward to alternate your attacks. PB bow use should be restricted to a single CA (or a line of CAs) or a buff like Draconetti described - even better! That could become VERY useful in close-quarters combat where we just cannot back off far enough to easily use the bow. Or even a Point Blank Stance - give up some of your bow CA damage for the ability to use it at melee range, uses three concentration slots, etc. I'd rather use my bow with reduced damage that not use it at all.
if they make ranged CA's not useable while moving, there pretty much goes kiting as we know it, the only thing that would solve that woudl be to make snares and roots for us and make them actually friggen work, I could see you not be able to move because it would be more realistic, but they casting time woudl have to be greatly shortened I think, like to a half a second, because when we have to stop for the mob to catch up, we are pretty much screwed. killa
I had not heard the part about needing to be stationary for CA's. If that is true, that will be the worst freaking nerf we've suffered to date. I depend on that movement sometimes. I could care less about kiting, but launching a CA while wheeling around to the tank's newly aquired target is part of my m.o. Looks like new strategies are in order for us all. I hope you guys are ready to adapt and overcome...again. BTW...SOE has been anti-kiting since release. It would not surprise me in the least if they have implemented a way to eliminate it completely. Message Edited by Zholain on 07-25-2005 02:51 PM
Recently got this corfirmed.. DoF = no more kiting for rangers.. unless something changes between now and September 12th.
From what I gather from all I've read one of SoE's goals is that the game becomes more challenging and nobody solo's heroics or higher anymore. On a realistic front, as long as I can kite a mob but it can't reliably hit me, I can defeat a mob. To stop my ranger's personal ability to solo heroic+ mobs you have two choices as far as I see. One is the need give every heroic+ mob a root, a snare, the ability to summon, or some awe inspiring ranged attacks of their own. The big problem with this option is that very few people will ever be able to escape from heroic+ mobs. The other option, as I see it, is to make it so I can't use my ranged abilities while in motion. I am not in beta or anything so I can't know for sure, but the above makes me give at least some credability to this rumor. If, as a tradeoff, I can use my ranged abilities from melee range, I can accept that change. As somebody who has used bows since I was 7 years old, I find close range archery to be more realistic then shooting a storm of arrows while running backwards or in a circle. When you hit something the arrow goes into it a foot or more, be it a foam target or a critter. Unless you're shooting at a tree where the arrow will only go in a few inches, there is nothing really stopping you from letting fly from only a few feet. Again, chain firing arrows while running in a circle backwards is what I find unrealistic. In terms of gameplay. close range would mean I'll be more viable in tight, dangerous areas. I would still be able to solo normal mobs - that part may even be easier. Groups won't be a cakewalk anymore. Heroic+ will be out the window, but as said I think that's the idea not just for Rangers but for everybody. I'll have to play with it once it goes live to give my final judgment, but I think trading archery while in motion, for point blank archery could be an acceptable compromise. Message Edited by Tover on 07-25-2005 11:23 PM
with the previous nerfs to kiting, 2m off bow range and a boast to mob run speed, i personally wasn't kiting heroics... groups of solo yes but i found kiting a waste of time for the gain. loss of kiting hasn't largely been whats bothered people (well, not mentioned directly), its more the loss of diversity within the ranger class imho. and if we lose kiting i hope mages lose their snares :smileytongue:
I dont think its good idea when the rangers would loose their ability to kite mobs. For me, the kiting part is a big part of the rangers gameplay. Its fun to know that you can kite lvl50 heroic mob with lvl 47. And its well balanced too at the moment. The time you spend and the EXP you get equals with killing solo mobs. But with killing solo mobs you get much more rewards and its not as risky as killing heroics. If the rangers loose their ability to kite, all casters should loose their ability to root the mobs or we should get the root ability. But that doesnt make sense in my eyes, because kiting is much funnier than standing around, root the mob and shoot it down.
A new ranger ability I wish was in the revamp... Say you are using your bow, but are being swamped by a mob (they caught up to you). Instead of pulling out sword in hand immediately, twould be nice to have a ca that stabbed them with an arrow in your hand. Sort of like a desperation ca before going to sword (defensive arrow for lack of a better name). Would be more realistic. Swords take time to draw, arrows are already at hand. Sort of like a reverse rip ca. Instead of tearing it out, it would insert it. Not high damage, just something to maybe stun/stifle a second or two while you whip the swords out. I dont think they will ever make us stay stationary to shoot, least I hope not. Think of mounted archers...what a waste the mount would be...just standing there looking silly. Just my .02 Message Edited by StealthM0de on 07-26-2005 07:49 AM
I might be, but it all depends, if I'm able to launch my bow attacks at point blank range I don't care so much about having to stand still to use them, the problem now is that I need to be able to move around to make sure those bow attacks are in bow range to actually fire... Even when fighting and not kiting mobs as a ranger you must run backwards from time to time if you want to use your bow ca's for the damge they offer, which when soloing is really the only good damage we get. Point blank + stationary = not so bad same range requirements + stationary = bad As long as we dont' get totally screwed out of being able to use bow ca's when fighting a set of solo grouped mobs it won't be a big deal I think.
