I heard Amend with other hate transfers making them work as hate reduction, but how exactly this work? For example, Amend 3 master (41% todays...) with a hate transfer from DPS (19%) and the DPS caused 1,000 agro. Caculation 1. Paladin got 41% of 1,000 (410), and DPS got (100% - 41% - 19%) of 1,000 (400) Caculation 2. Paladin got 41% of (100% - 19% of 1,000) (332.1), and DPS got (100% - 41%) of (100% - 19% of 1,000) (477.9) Which one of currect?
Rules of amends: ONE The higher transfer overwrites the lower. - So amending an assasin who is transfering 19% to you gives you 41% transfer TWO If you get transfers from multiple sources... say you amend a brigand, and there is an assasin in the group then you get 19% from the assasin and 41% from the brigand HOWEVER since this goes over the cap (50%) it is scaled down. so its (19/60) / 2 = 15.8% from the assasin and (41/60) / 2 = 34.2% from the brigand. THREE Amending someone with hate REDUCTION say 50% hate less hate gain... means from a person generating 1000 hate with 50% reduction means they are only generating 500 hate... which is then transfered to you so you will gain only a quarter of their true hate. SO its advisable that you do not ate hate reduction on the amends target FOUR And finally... sigil breaks all of the rules which is why its do powerful... as it transfers 36% of group members hate for its duation IN ADDITION to other transfers
Rule one is wrong I believe. Amends+MD was 50% AFAIK. It definitely used to be. So, unless it was changed.. The rest is right though. Test rule one by having an assassin/swash put their xfer on you, amends them, pull a mob with your LVL1 taunt then don't touch your keyboard while they burn. They should be unable to rip with 50% xfer. If they do, I'm wrong. (they'll have to remove signet of betrayal if they have it on) If I'm wrong please accept my appology, but I don't think I am.
Bah. Just spend 20 minuites searching for an old post where Aeralik talks about how hate transfer works. There are 3 types of hate modifiers. Hate takers, hate givers, and hate blockers. You can have upto 50% of each. Amends is a hate taker. We take hate from the target and that is limited to 50%. So if you had gear that gave you hate transfer you'd cap when gear + amends = 50%. Now that is what you do, it doesn't cap what your target does! You can only have upto 50% hate transfer from givers. So having 3 swashbucklers each transfering 17% hate to you is only going to give you 50% of that hate, not 51% and that lost 1% comes from the last swashie to cast. Hate blocking works the same way, if your grouped with 2 guardians that hate you they can only cancle 50% of the hate you'd generate. If you want to watch something funny, amends a swashbuckler and have them transfer hate to you. Let them pull. As long as your within 10m of the swashbuckler the mob will come running for your head, not his. Note: the rest of the group would have an easy time pulling agro if they arn't careful.
t issuesZerakonx wrote: Afraid you're wrong... I've seen people try to prove it that way a few times but issues such as hate gain and hate degain, hate procs, riposte and numerous other things often mean the 9% is earned up. and I *have* seen assasins or the like pull agro off myself when they do not assist and/or I am unable to engage the target fully even tho I got myself on their hate list. The larger transfer is in effect over the smaller transfer.. it was one of the fixes done a while ago that stopped the higher LEVEL transfer cancel out amends suh as the bug with the sorcerer transfer.
Boli32 wrote: Distance is an issue. There also might be some timing issues where lag could play a significant role. The last time I tested this a swashbuckler couldn't pull agro. Not sure about an assassin.
Meirril wrote: You can test this in practice on the last named in YOS who is a pain due to the immunity. Give an assassin or a swash amends, they transfer to you, and then throw on sigil of heroism so you are over the 50% without doing anything to the mob and let them dps away with that item you have to use. Regardless of how long the fight is, they will not pull agro. They will never pull agro from you even though they are doing all of the damage and you do spit due to immunity. So, amends+scout transfers goes up to 50% as long as there are no other transfers on you. At least that is how it has worked every time I have run that zone. If it was only 41% the scout would rip agro quickly after sigil of heroism wore off.
Sigil is a 36% transfer of all the groups agro to you for 20s. it is IN ADDITION and ON TOP OF amends; so that is not a very fair test. Likewise as I said before things such as damage shields, riposites, hate gain, hate decreasors often make up the additional 9% as long as you are on the mobs hate list and they are attacking you. The higher transfer overwrites the lower transfer; they do NOT add up.
Boli32 wrote: Lol all that can be remove when testing amends hate transfers will stack with amends up to 50%.
Why do I have to keep telling people... amends will stack with other transfered YES if they are from different people 50% is the cap HOWEVER the higher transfer will overwrite the lower. Test it thoughrally and make sure that NEITHER person has hate gain/deagro ad take a closer look at what spells/abilities you are casting. An assasin or swashbucker CAN drag agro off a paladin when they have their transfer on the paladin if the paladin ONLY hits a single taunt on the mob; and does not deal any reactive damage/agro on the mob.
Boli32 wrote: Yeah, unfortunately sigil is the only thing I can think of to bypass the complete immunity that Zaxth has to tip you over the amount of hate your dps is making. However, I'm willng to try to test it out with a single taunt but I'm sure you have already done so as you are fairly strong in your convictions.
Boli is correct. It in fact use to be different but the way boli stated it is the way it works right now. As for his conviction, boli is probably the only high end raider that bar no reason will never betray his paladin regardless of what happens, and is probably the most dedicated player to being a paladin of anyone that plays/played eq2. (possibly stonestrong too, but boli's referenced more frequently ) Theres a little incentive there to know the class and where it currently stands. If you want a really accurate way to test amends, take a wizard with a master transfer and full aa buffing into it (9%) and a paladin with master amends. Amend/transfer up, strip both players down to straight nakedness, no other buffs other than those 2, then have the wizard go around blasting stuff. Have the paladin use their level 1 taunt on the mob until it lands, then do nothing else. If the transfers are stacking, even 1 hate is enough that the wizard should NEVER pull hate off the paladin (unless they're truncating the decimals when transfering odd numbers of hate in which case you should see the wizard pull hate after any spells that result in an odd number of damage times the amount of hate the paladin's clarion landed for). If they're naked, this eliminates any possibility of reactives or anything else occuring to generate passive hate and the mob should directly run straight over to the paladin without question.
