Purchase Offers and Future Expansions

It is obvious that DBG wants to get as much as they can for expansions when they go on sale. That said, the prices for the Premium service this year are shocking. Quite frankly, for what is being offered it doesn't feel like a good deal.

And that feeling should be a huge barrier to the vast majority of your customer base opening up their wallets. You need to spend some extra effort to overcome their reluctance, put them at ease and excite them rather than make them recoil.

The packages offered so far will get some purchasers, but you could make a lot more if you start low and then make special offers piecemeal. With a lot of ala cart choices and other incentives to purchase more for a larger discount you should be able to get more income.

Consider starting with a base item, the bare bones expansion itself at its current $35, and then make 2 offers. The first offer is $10 off the entire purchase for subscribers, plus another 10% off for every hundred dollars spent in this transactions (maximum of 30% off). Then show all the possible ala cart items to add to the purchase. Make a section for "account wide" items, and then a section for "per character" items. Allow the customers to purchase as many per character items as they want. Also throw in an option to buy subscription time in this purchase. It would even be a good idea to throw in an option to purchase Krono and DBC, though I'd suggest capping the amount of subscription time to 1 year, and no more than 20 Krono in a single transaction. Also include character slots.

You might even throw in a second bonus to purchasing subscription time, Krono and/or DBC. Give a certain amount of credit towards buying the ala cart expansion items. If you have $12 in credit, spending an extra $8 for a house or a mount doesn't sound like a bad idea.

Also a lot more ala cart items can be thrown in. Making some "statues" of expansion monsters would have a certain amount of sales, and no real development time cost. Other furniture items (or recipes to make special items) could be popular. Anything where allowing a player to buy multiples of an item won't feel excessive would be good for this sort of thing.

I really really like this idea... kinda like a "make your own expansion bundle" deal?

I don't want most the items in the bundles, only 2 or 3 things, so the only good deal is the base for me unless they go on super sale.

I agree, things need a serious once, or twice over. And some significant changes need to be made.

On a whim, I compared a competitor's premium collection. For $150 you receive: The content of three full expansions (including full collector's edition bling that wasn't pre-order exclusive) plus an additional set of bling exclusive to that bundle, which is a full premium edition's worth of stuff in itself, most of which is per character, or applies account wide.

Compared to: $140 and you receive: 1 mercenary, 2 mounts, a teleport item, painting, house, building blocks, 1 merc gear crate, per character. and ONE PER ACCOUNT merc gear feature, 2 different sales crates, ONE infuser, level 100 boost, effigy.

You also have to pay $140 to get the 18 slots for your wardrobe. Otherwise it's 6 and 12 slots for basic and collector's, respectively (according to the beta testers).

The point I want to make is that CN/DBG really needs to work at being more competitive with the cost vs reward compared to other titles on the market. Right now they're far from it.

When the tide starts to shift toward grudging acceptance, it's difficult to get those players back once the 'grudging' outstrips the 'acceptance'.

It would help if they mentioned that buying the expansion unlocks the ability to use mercenaries. That seems to be some sort of hidden perk that players have noticed.

What the OP said.

I am old returning player totally flustered by the expansion purchase choices. Honestly I would pay $140 without batting an eye even though I don't understand some of the features I would be purchasing (like Equipment Infusion, no idea!) because I want to support this game but I cannot stand the one per character special features. I almost feel like I will get a better deal if I wait and buy this expansion at a later date, my husband mentioned something about if you buy an expansion you cannot re-purchase it later for bonus features so this puts me even further on the fence. I do like the idea of building our own expansion pack w/bonuses and paying for it item by item, although I would probably pick everything haha!

Would it really be so game breaking and unfair to make all features account wide (not 1 per character) to players willing to spend $140?

It should be more publicized for sure. It was mentioned in the stream.

For some reason, call me crazy, we had same discussion last year and the I believe the year before that. There's also a reason why they said subs get a discount. I find buying games for my Xbox more then this but guess each there own.

As this is tread number 30 or so about the price tag vs. what you get for the collectors and premium edition I feel the need to explain something. When setting the price point for anything you set it to maximize profit. Lower price means more people buy it but you make less per sale. High price means you sell less but make more per sale. So the price is set based on a forecast of how many units would likely be sold at various price points. These decisions are not made randomly, they are made by people who have access to data that the customer base does not so to second guess the decisions with zero data seems odd to me. There are a lot of forum posts of people saying that the price is too high but I'd bet half my plat that sales on the collectors and premium edition are doing just fine. The people who have bought the special editions just don't come on the forums in droves to say that they bought it. Given the fact that not only have the cost of collectors editions not gone down, this time they offered an even more expensive premium edition, I would say that sales on special editions have been where they expect them. We'll see how the premium price point works out for them in 2017 when they release the next one. If you enjoy armchair quarterbacking the professionals on forums then knock yourself out but it won't likely change the price. The sales figures weigh too heavily on that decision.
Also when it comes to bundle deals most people only want a few of the things in the bundle. The idea is to attract as many people as you can with a variety of items not put in items that all appeal to everyone. It comes down to whether or not people are willing to pay the price point for the two things they want. If you break it up and lower the price, you lose money.

Better watch that common sense, Wing. Could make you pariah in the forums.

The basic game is all you NEED.....the rest is just wants.wishes,fluff. So you weigh out how important those extras are to you and you decide if you are willing to spend the extra $$.....I think there are a fair amount willing to spend the extra on at least 1 account. If not, then they still get to play the same content as those willing to dish out the extra.

This griping is the same we heard last year...and the previous year...and so on. There is nothing in the collector or premium edition that any player NEEDS to play the new expansion. Think of it like buying a car...you can get the basic package....or an upgrade for a few thousand more...or go for broke and get the limited edition....no matter what you choose it is still 4 wheels that get you from point a to point b.

I don't think 'griping' was the idea of anyone who created or responded to this thread, as buyers we would just like to offer some ideas, input, and feedback about the expansion offers and Daybreak Games can take it or leave it. Of course we don't NEED the fluff, if you are going to look at it that way when it comes down to it we really don't NEED the expansion or this game either when it comes down to it. But if Daybreak is going to ask for $140 for an expansion I and everyone else most definitely have a right to say, 'Well here is where I balk at paying so much, I want evenhanded benefits across all my characters not just 1 per account!" or some such.

I am not sure why you are trying to knock us down and shut us out for leaving a note to another party who clearly isn't you. We are fellow supporters of Daybreak Games, we are not trying to tear them down just the opposite in fact.

I feel like I'm probably coming across as being completely anti gripe so I'd like to note that I am definitely pro this type of gripe. The special editions have been changed to make some of the items one per character because people spoke up and I think that is great. If there isn't a good reason to be one per account then I say you should get one per character. We were given multiple character slots and some people paid for additional slots so why not let them use the stuff on every toon.

I think you stated the obvious. They care only about money. Their mission is to make as much money as possible; and It just so happens to be in the gaming industry. Based on their slashed infrastructure, they have gone away from attempting to make a great game and shifted to making as much money as they can with the least effort. SOE attempted to balance profit with satisfaction by creating a great game; and they saw success in that balance for a long time.

Your assumption on the probability that pre-order sales are doing fine has no real bearing on perceived sticker shock except to imply customers have no say in the matter. Which leads to the equal probability that the only objective in producing this xpac was a maximum profit.
It shows us the rationalization or their approach but in no way does it justify purchasing this product, nor does it compel anyone to cease protest. Empathy? Doubtful. Sympathy? Ridiculous. Perceived value is the only factor that matters; and a companies needs don't weigh in here. It's a moot point.

The customer is almost always right when determining value.
The exception lies with companies (and their products) that have a stellar history of quality, excellence, and customer satisfaction. Herb Kelleher was able to scoff at customer dissatisfaction because he backed it up with an "excellence first" approach-which is nonexistent here. Aesthetics are an entirely different discussion.

In no way does it factor into a customers determination of value nor should it; which is what this thread, and those similar ones before it, are all about- an acceptable level of value.

Probably the big difference in my post vs the other 30 is that I'm saying that DBG could make more money from EVERYBODY if they offered a more flexible package. It wouldn't just be a way to make more profit, it would also decrease player dissatisfaction. That not only means that customers are happier about spending the money, but they will tend to spend more when they are excited about the options rather than trying to justify the expense of a package that includes items they do not want (or don't know they want yet).

The whole Wardrobe thing is a great example. Nowhere in the package deals is it mentioned. If things were done like I put in the OP, then it would be a clear choice where you'd get 6 slots with the base expansion, and you could pay an extra $10 for 6 more slots, or $20 for 12 extra slots. Upfront and you know what you are getting. That sort of thing makes customers happy.

While DBG does have people that price these packages, lets face it. The price of the package has inflated with not that much extra being offered. As such it offends the sensibilities of long term customers. Some of those customers want to justify every dollar they give the company. Other customers would be perfectly happy spending hundreds of dollars more to get what they want. Why not give them the opportunity to buy more and "save" while they do it with a special promotion? Because they have to spend all that extra time to make a bunch more virtual goods? No of course not. And yet, everything is priced that way.

DBG obviously has people that price these packages. I think they need to broaden their horizon and consider a new way to do it, because the current rut they are working in is upsetting their customer base and restricting their opportunity to make a profit.

People pay these prices. If they didn't, the prices would drop.

If you could read between the lines you'd see that I'm saying that customers had a say in the matter.

The number of people that purchased ToT collectors edition (and to a lesser extent the previous collectors editions) spoke with their wallets and said "we will pay more for fluff". Now armed with that sales data DB has effectively said "if you like fluff here is more fluff for more money". Now the customers have a say in that matter. If they buy enough kunark premium editions, we will probably see a premium edition in Nov 2017. What you won't see happen is a reduced price in the current premium edition because they would either have to refund the people that already bought it or cause much more animosity. It is also highly unlikely that they will break up special edition fluff so people can only pay for what they want in the future for reasons I've already stated.

Sales figures will drown out the voices of dissent on the forums. The prices of this xpac aren't going to change and a year from now nobody at DB is going to remember what a few people said on these forums. They will pull up data and figure out how much to charge for the next xpac's special editions. If the sales are around what they expected when they set the prices this year, the prices will be the same next year.

Or they could make less money from the many people that buy the special editions because they want 1 or 2 things to make more money from a handful of people unwilling to pay the current price for the 1 or 2 things they want. It is hard for me to believe that there are many people out there that want every item from the special editions. I really could be wrong because I'm basing that on my own opinion and I would only use 4 of the items even if they were all free.

Or they could just add that to the list of what you get with the different editions and it would be upfront and you know what you are getting.
I really don't dislike your ideas, I just don't see it working in the real world. I apologize if it seemed like I was attacking you for your ideas. I would actually be happy if they did implement your idea for the next xpac. I still wouldn't buy any of it but it would likely make some people happy and I like happy people.

Everything I've said is based on real world business practices and current economic theory. I'd give the same advice to any company that doesn't incur additional overhead expenses with an increase in per-unit production. This can be applied to other business models where you are selling digital goods. A really good example is music, software or shows.

You've already paid for the product and the distribution network. It is a sunk cost. No matter how much of it you sell, you don't expect it will cost you more money to sell more of it. As a matter of fact, you'll incur the same costs even if you sell less. There is no per-unit cost associated with sales.

In this situation you want to entice as many customers as you can to purchase the product. If possible you want to offer them incentives to purchase more and to make future purchases. Without any costs associated with the production, you can do this by offering discounts on the product itself. But you want to maximize profits by balancing per-unit price and incentives to purchase more.

That means gauging the demand for your products. What DBG is depending on is their Collectors and Premium package having enough items in them that there is a high demand from its customer base. As long as the demand is higher than the consumer expectation people will buy the more expensive product.

However, there will always be a population that their consumer expectation falls below that price threshold. I take the multiple threads here to say there is a large population that isn't buying the more expensive packages. I'm even willing to go as far as to say that there is a large population that is willing to spend enough to buy the expansion and a little more, but not willing to buy what is offered. The financial decision is can you make more money by charging less? And also the reverse, can you make more money by charging more? DBG could make less this year by charging more. They won't know the results until after the expansion goes live. That is the nature of business and business models. It is just a prediction, and your assumptions could be wrong.

The current DBG pricing model also doesn't take advantage of the customers that very happily buy the premium package. Why do I say that? Because they could be willing to pay more. Really, you only get one opportunity to sell expansions a year, a business like DBG can't afford not to sell as much as the customer is willing to buy. If some guy is willing to spend $5,000 on extra fluff why isn't DBG going after it?

If DBG makes more this year than they did last year there is a very good chance they will ignore this thread. If they make less, or even a proportional amount to what they made last year this idea could look very attractive. What I'm saying is that the 3 step packages they are offering is limiting their profits both on the low end of the scale, and the top end. Offer some scaling discounts and watch people peg themselves to the high end of their comfort zone. This will work.

I should charge a consulting fee for this kind of advice. Well, its basic advice. Just DBG has stuck itself in an archaic business model that ignores its own F2P+subscription restructure.

It would help if information was typed up in detail about EXACTLY what you get with each tier (for example this is the first I heard that the wardrobe spaces vary depending on the tier of the package you buy) and then publish that on the forums under news and put a link to it at the bottom of the prettier marketing version. I feel like information is all over the place. I've learned some in the stream, some on Feldon's site, some in threads here on the board where Kander has stated something is changing based on feedback, some from the Discord server, etc. It's really hard to keep up with.

This is exactly how I see it too, well stated. The difference between our opinions is likely the result of my admittedly near obsession with data. I can't fathom modeling something without data so I assume DB has set the price points based on data which is unavailable to us in order to make a more accurate prediction.
I'm still not convinced that offering the fluff, piece meal would increase profits. The reason bundles sell well is because people not only pay for things they don't want but somehow think what they are purchasing has more value because they are included.
The premium edition has 12 items that the standard doesn't for $105. If they broke that up they would run into the same issue with people feeling like some or all items are too expensive. Lets face it, some people want the mount, some want the house, some want a combination of a few things but people aren't dishing out 100 buck for the painting. This is where the data comes in because DB knows how much people will spend on mounts with bad stats and can predict what people will pay for a good mount. They know what people will pay for a prestige house. They can estimate what their sales would be piece meal and estimate what it would be bundled. As you pointed out these are predictions but predictions backed up by data, not personal opinion. It is possible that they never considered selling the fluff individually but considering the marketplace has been around for a while I'm making the assumption they explored this. Given that assumption I'll still believe the bundle option is a better business decision. Maybe somebody from DB will come out and say "good idea, we never thought of that" or if that is the case more likely say nothing and just adopt it next xpac, we'll just have to wait and see.

One thing I forgot.

Given the number of those threads that have been closed because they say the exact same thing as other threads I took it to me that people who get upset about pricing also don't bother to look for open threads about what they want to say. I don't include you in that because yours actually offered an in depth explanation of your ideas which were constructive and original.