OOC. Positive Feedback, not Personal Attacks. There are a lot of threads on Templar class balance issues. There will likely be a good few more before SoE actually get around to addressing the problems many of us are reporting. There may still be many after that. I am very likel to be starting another one very soon, when I find time, pulling together much of previous feedback to this board from many players. That is afterall what the message boards are for, for discussions and feedback. Many of us are not happy with the state of the Templar class, and are continuing to be vocal in saying so, and saying why. We are presenting observations and data, because we care about our class, and want to see it "fun" once more, in all our playstyles. The message is getting repetitive, yes, but that is inevitable given that the same concerns being raised by countless posters are still unanswered by the SoE developers. However, there is a growing trend in the recent couple of weeks for a very small number of posters to attack those of us who are making this feedback. This is not only anti-social and unhelpful, but it also breaks the rules of these forums, and it really has to stop. From this point forward, I will be reporting to the moderators every single instance I see of posts that are just purely there to attack another poster, rather than posting on the issue being discussed. If you are one of the few Templars who is "happy", I am pleased for you, truely I am. I will not start attacking you for feeling that way, whatever my personal feelings, because that is not my place. If you are not a Templar player, but feel a need to post here, do so with an approach that is not going to antagonise a significant fraction of the Templar community, and remember that these are the Templar forums. And most relevantly of all, if you are a hardcore raiding player with no interest in the casual playstyle loved by many of us, that is fine, but if you don't care about whether we as a class can operate on an equal basis with other priests in solo/small group settings, then let those of us who do play in and care about those settings give our feedback on issues affecting us, without the need for you to launch personal attacks on us for doing so. Calling people whiners, implying they do not know how to play their class, and telling them to shut up and/or go re-roll and play another class, is only going to start flame wars, and again, that is NOT what this board is for, and it helps no-one. Repetitively demonstrating such behaviour pretty much defines the phrase "board troll", and I am sure the moderators will tire of it. Now let us get down to the issue of presenting the case for our class balance issues being addressed.
lol.... Id say you first get the templar community to behave themselfes before you start accusing on other people with posts that agonise you. The flamewar wil continu aslong as people read that the once gimped classes needs to be nerfed becuse you templars arent that "über" anymore. Talking to the many templars in my guild (yes indeed unlike some people posting there arent any templars left we have 6 wich makes them the nr1 healerclass in my guild) most of the so called problems you have are non existant. So its actualy easy: stop the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing on other healerclasses and the flamewars wil stop. Oh my last comment: reading at what you all want for your class (extra DPS, HOT and more utility) it seems that 80% of the templar community have picked the wrong class at start wich is your own fault so dont blame other classes for that. Ok this is realy my last comment: you can report my post all that you want but most people who have a change to read this wil agree as what i just posted is simply what you guys have been posting the last few months. Message Edited by lmhotep on 01-31-200604:42 AM
"Holy Books of Templar" - Updated constantly since September 27, 2005. Real results. No attacks allowed.
This thread's gonna burnnnnnnnn.... But overall I'm happy, just want more spell damage increase so I can solo/duo without having to die of boredom
OOC. And how would you complaining about other posters, with more personal attacks (thinly veiled or otherwise) help? You know the board rules as well as I do. If you do not wish to support your fellow Templars in their feedback to SoE to get the Templar class balanced with the other priest classes in the casual-player playstyle game (because you have no interest in that playstyle, your words, being only interested in raiding, which only needs you to heal, and our healing is not as badly off as other aspects of our class), then fine, but why not make some other positive contributions to the community if you wish to take part here? Attacking other posters is not making a contribution, it is just hurting the community.
You know it's kind of strange, but I don't remember seeing the word Fury anywhere in Caethre's post, but since you seem to be such an expert on all our issues I'm sure I must be wrong. The Fury/Templar drama has gone on far too long and it's ignorant posts like this which fuel it. Oh, so you've talked to Templars and there aren't any problems. It's funny, I've talked to the 2 or 3 people in my guild who will actually still play a Templar and they say there are a few problems. So because I actually play a Templar and you don't, I think I'm going to go with my opinion. There are days like this I want to jump on the nerf Fury bandwagon just to shut you guys up but since I actually have a fury as well I actually know what I'm talking about. Nerfing Furies solves nothing and most of us say that. Of course you'd actually have to read posts around here to know that and not listen to the BS hype. Do your homework, and come back. It'd be a lot easier to get the Templar community to behave if we didn't have Furies in here almost daily trolling.
I am not attacking, and in that comment I am not impending feedback to SoE. I am simply wondering why you Cathere, in some of your posts, you compare the negative aspects of our class to the positive aspects of another class and then leave it at that. I understand you roleplay, but go easy on me when posting ok, I'm very sensitive :smileywink:
Now, I understand what Caethre meant by "positive" was actually "constructive", but I felt it interesting that the word was chosen as it was. You see, I think Supernova does give positive feedback. In fact, I think that's one of his perceived faults - that he's too positive about the class. It's a fault shared by many of us. Even within Caethre's first post on this, she uses "happy" in quotes. Anyone familiar with her posts within the Templar forum knows that she is not..."happy" with our class. I do believe she'll admit willingly on this point, if I'm not too far off my mark. Yet, in post after post of hers, she tells myself and others that we're somehow incorrect because we are "happy". Even above, she again implies that our opinions are somehow not on target. Now, looking past the tone which seems to judge everyone from those who enjoy the class to those who raid, and looking only upon the message, I'm glad to see that she's come around to a position some of us have been trying to push for some months now - to veer from attacking each other, and attacking points instead; to distinguish between the arguer and the argument. We all hold differing opinions on the class most of us play weekly, but we're not going to get anywhere by continuing to bash on each other or on each other's playstyles. So, in the spirit of what I hope Caethre's trying to say, I invite the entire Templar community to stop bashing on raiding Templars. I invite them to stop pointing out post counts in a negative fashion. I invite them to stop discussing who has more "supporters". I invite the community to cease in telling each other who has a valid opinion based on level or gear or playstyle.
/Agree with caethre I also see you have a conjuror alt, my conjuror alt has become my main once I realised just how much more fun it was to play. Imo preists need stances, maybe something similar to shadowform the preists get in wow, where you gain a whole set of new offensive skills and a fair bit of armour (not that templars would need more armour) but lose the ability to heal (In wow the preist still retains some ability to heal in shadowform, based on their damage). Is it really that much to ask to be able to solo effectivly? Then again what do I care my templars 60, and my new main is my conj. And thats MY opinion, you are entitled to have your own, just dont go thinking that you are right and everyone else is wrong and posting as such. Message Edited by SnowKnight on 02-01-200602:29 AM
Interesting thought, and I agree. Say some sort of stance that would disable most of our healing ability such as disabling our specialty heals leaving us with only our small and large direct heals in return for more armor or avoidance and damage. I have come to realize that soloing for a templar is amazingly slow, and its not much better for my class. I have also seen that many high end groups do not need alot of healing. In these situations as well as solo, it could be very useful. I simply don't and won't solo with my Warden it's slow and ineffective. If I can't find or create a group I load up an alt.
The stance idea is good. Reduce healing by 20% and increase damage by 50% or something. It allows us to heal the same but if we need dps for solo or groups that don't need healing we can do that also. It could be very creative on how healing was decreased and how dps is increased. Back on track, it is very frustrating to read comments on what templars can't do and how weak they are. Do I just shut up and know I don't have the same problems? I would really like to see the comments and energy focused on what can and really needs to be be fixed. Some things just will not change, others I don't feel are broken. Removing those there are still lots of things that can be improved. I really think if a few people would back down on the bashing and flaming, the comments I don't agree with would be easier to ignore and respect. I have a conjurer alt I have leveled to 59 and I see alot of points clearer now. I have always played my templar and never really noticed how long it took to solo stuff. I was used to it because it was always that way. Burning through a quest chain in a day, where it took serveral days for my templar shows how slow and boring it is to grind through quests. The masive destruction I can wield as a conjurer is much more fun, but it will never replace the thrill I get from healing. So templars are fun in groups or raids fighting challenging encounters, the rest is pretty boring. Conjurers are fun soloing content quickly, but less fun in the rest of the game. So it is just my opinion but the most improvement from Templars can be gained in providing a way to finish solo content quicker, and utility that will provide something for doing easier group content. Oh, I guess I forgot that Templars are pretty good at training content and surviving. Not sure if that is really utility though.
Lol again, what a very toughtfull post. If you had read my post carefully instead of trying to flame me you would have read that im not stating there arent any problems. Furthermore your so called fury/templar drama is totaly started by the templars as they seem so jealous at our "amazing" abilities. You are so jealous about the fact whe can nuke (look at that a OFFENSIVE priest who can do damage roflmao!) that you are totaly blinded that the Fury`s where the gimped class before LU13 (to be exact for 1 year we sucked) so instead of asking support from the comunity your now comparing yourself to a totaly different class (yes fury`s are different to templars remember offence versus deffence???) I didnt stated you have no problems (some extra dps would be nice wich i totaly agree on) but the things you guys are asking for (well almost demanding) is totaly redicilous. At first i was reading all your topics about the templars problems with interested but as the problems turned into sheer jealousy about the fury the flamewars started. This is why i posted my comment on the topic starter who is trying to blame the flaming on everyone else except herself. Its always the other side to blame on wich offcourse is the easiest way isnt it?
Yay - something positive and on topic! :smileyhappy: I like this idea. I don't think we should lose all ability to heal, just enough to make us ineffective as a main healer. Maybe retaining as much healing power as a paladin or what a conjuror has to heal their pet. The more healing power we lose, the more DPS we should gain, obviously.
Heyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy...... Look, I fail to see how mine or any raiding templar's input happens to be in-valid. Despite what is spoken and posted on these boards, we're pretty certain that's the general concensus toward us. Fact is, we small group all the time. We small grouped to 50, small grouped to 60, small grouped to do assorted time consuming quests. I really do not see how we can be accused of not knowing how it is outside of raiding. How do you think we got to be good at raiding in the first place? I assure everyone, none of us bought our characters over eBay, none of us took over the account from a friend who quit. Hard work and patience of learning how to heal and react to situations in small groups pays off. You learn strategy and tactics just by grouping, SoE did a rather good job back in t5 with teaching us the values of cures, mob direct damage, and mob AoEs. The list goes on, we had a ton of tools at our disposal. Calling for more DPS? Healing like a Paladin? Stances? Whatever. All you people suddenly becoming a fanboi of the Fury class make me ill. I posted a while back that Furies had it so hard in pre-DoF, t5 days. All of you were off playing your Templar (which was fantasticly overpowered) while these guys were barely able to get groups because of how horrible their heal prowess was. Guess what, all that changed and now that Furies are suddenly a respectable class once more, look what happens: everyone now is upset because they aren't the "uber" healer (Templar) that they were and jumped on the Fury bandwagon. I think you are also forgetting what you signed up with when you created your Templar. The SoE class description is as follows, and hasn't changed since the launch of EQ2: "Templars are faithful servants of the divine who use their benevolent powers to aid their fellow adventurers. They mend the wounded and purge illness and suffering from the afflicted." Let's look at the Fury description now: "Furies harness the power of storms and control the ferocity of nature. They command the feral spirits of the wilderness to strengthen and heal their companions." Benevolent powers, the power of storms (Templar healing and HP buffing vs. Fury nukes). Ferocity of nature, mending wounded and purging illness (Fury DPS buffing, Templar reactive and spot healing). Strengthen and heal their companions (Fury buffing and healing). We've each got our own piece of the puzzle to put in place. It has been like this since the beginning of EQ2, don't tell me otherwise, because that's SoE's stance. Templars are working as they are supposed to be, Furies are working as they are supposed to be. Case closed.
