What the title says. First off, as some people may remember me several months ago asking how to spec an SK for tanking because i was having issues with it. I failed and betrayed to Paladin and have not had any problems since then. All i want is Group wide amends in next Xpak. Juggling Amends between 2 high dpsers is getting a bit frustrating for both them and me. I shouldnt have to tell them "Control your agro and dps". Anybody else got thoughts on this?
Sigil of Heroism is a group hate siphon if I am not mistaken, and honestly if you are having trouble holding aggro I would say look at group makeup and look at what hate you are generating on your own
As a Tank, I can say that you don't need it. I know many a Paladin who holds hate with no problems. The answer should always be Amends on the highest DPS. Also there is a limit on how much Hate you can have transferred to you. Never Amends an Asssasin if there is another high DPS due to Assasins having their own transfer. Who is your character. Perhaps one of us on the Forums can help figure out if there is anything wrong with gear or other set up. It could be you are trying to hold hate of people better geared, which will always be hard.
First, let me caveat this by saying I don't raid, and I haven't raided in a while. But it is absolutely each players responsibility to know their role and perform that role to the best of their ability. This includes monitoring hate for the dps classes. Sure, we paladins are given a great tool with amends, but so are other classes. For the dps scouts there's always the option of using ignorant bliss as well as their deaggros. Mages have deaggro tools as well. I'm a scrub tank, and still haven't had any issues with aggro. If you are, check your aa/gear setup. Get some hate adorns if you need them. But don't ask for a crutch that isn't needed.
Pretty much what everyone else has said: #1: Be sure Amends is on the consistent top parser, if 2-way tie make sure one of those two isn't a swash or assassin (they have a transfer) #2: Group setup? Coercer, Dirge or a hate transfer will help a lot #3: Got taunts? Get hate mod, and look into items that would help your agro (draconic effigy, for example). #4: check your AA selection / gear quality
I dont always have issues holding agro. Assuming mages know how to even use their deagro tools. My hate mod is at 86%, used to tank with just 60% and had no issues. Here's my setup: http://www.u.eq2wire.com/soe/character_detail/442383839554 Im not asking for a "crutch", i get pretty damn annoyed with having to juggle amends between 2 of the highest parsing dps in the group. I dont normally get a dirge or a coercer in the group because its late at night. My work schedule conflicts with my play times so i dont always get the best group set up.
#1: I keep having to juggle amends between 2 of the consistent top parsers, neither of which is an assassin or swash. Pretty much when i group i get the crappiest set up of classes ever. #2: Work times conflict with play times, so im usually playing late at night, i dont get the best group setup. In fact, i rarely ever get a dirge or a Coercer. Everybody just keeps inviting a freakin' illy or Troub. #3: I used to have the Draconic Effigy until i saw a change in my hate, so i changed it out for something better. #4: I copied my aa from someone else's and changed them around abit to fit the situations i get into. heres my gear set up http://www.u.eq2wire.com/soe/character_detail/442383839554 All of my Threat spells are Masters. The rest of the group will be just fine, im just asking for a group wide amends so i dont have to juggle between 2 of the consistent top parsers. There is nothing i can do about Pets because they dont have any -% hate mods and im not putting amends on a pet. I've held agro pretty well in raids as OT, only times i lost agro in raids is when i forgot to amends back on the other person, thats it.
1: Then don't pick one, who ever is "consistently" topping meaning on all fights not just AE or short Trash Bursts. 2: It happens, I've had to tank groups without Dirge/Coercer and it's very doable. Usually by knowing your own tools Sigil is very strong and you have another Snap you can pick up in the Dragon Lines. 3: That's because Effigy is not a Taunt increase, it's a Positional Increase. It's a massive aggro spike used for instantly ripping back aggro. I've never lost hate while Effigy is running also from it's massive WDB boost. 4: eh, I would say to check out the raiding paladins. The guy your copying looks like a Heroic/Lowend Raider since Fabled Labs is really easy. It may work for him but really without seeing what you changed to your own AA I can't really make much comment or insight.
DPS mod...7 Multi attack 11. Ouch. Both those need to go way up. Especially dps mod. 600 crit is all you need for heroics so you can change a few adorns too. I hate to say this but I would remove every single one of those purple stamina runes and put something else in that will help you with Pot, CB, dps mod, AE, ...pretty much anything more than just STA. In general, adding white adorns that add to your casting speed (for reforging), DPS, and MA would help imho. Except for when you are running Dom, you might also consider swapping out a few of those mitigation armor items for more dps related gear. Most of the other instances don't require full turtle spec and gear. Oh, I'd dump the Fabled Wastestalker Earring. 15 seconds of daze (no auto attack) is bad if you are trying to tank. DPS still matters for tanks even though the spread between fighters and dps classes is pretty big this expansion (in my opinion.) You might take a look through the thread Maergoth posted for paladins. It's enormously helpful. I haven't run into the same type of aggro problems you are describing on my paladin and I'm definitely not uber. I'm sorry to say that I don't feel groupwide amends is needed although hell, I'll take it if they give it to me. Edit to add: You might (for your own testing) consider creating a second tank spec where you swap the INT tree for the STR line. If nothing else, that would allow you to reforge a bit for more into the dps related stats I mentioned above. I personally also really like the damage added to your taunts that you get on the 2nd option of the far right side branch in the Dragon AA line. The name is Ancient Advance. With 10/10 in that your taunts actually do some decent damage.
I agree as a tank you don't need group wide amends. Setting aside the fact that it would be ridiculously overpowered, Its not needed. I have had no issues on my pally even with multiple high dps in the group. There is also no need to juggle amends. pick a target and go. You have great hate gen and many blue aoes. I think to be honest you should re-evaluate your tools as a paladin and yes up the dps and multi because that is not helping you at all.
I think so too. Damage = hate and you're missing an extra attack and 6 times the damage from your autoattack. Switch all your purple runes for dps mod ones. Add casting speed whites to legs, charms, cloak, forearms and wrists, then reforge cast speed on your armor into dps mod or MA (up to at least 120). I have no issues holding aggro on my zerker, sk or monk, and they don't have Amends. You shouldn't have an issue with those stats sorted and pressing your CAs. Aim for 120MA and at least 500dps mod.
As an ex-raiding paladin, I highly suggest dropping some of your defensive stuff and you definitely need to upgrade your dps stats. As people above have stated you are missing out on a lot by only have 7dps mod and 11multi. I'll list here what your target stats should be for heroic tanking: Mitigation - 13k, cap is 75% but you overcap it for higher level mobs. 13k self is more than enough to put you over cap with buffs in groups. Avoidance - Vary it, uncontested block is your savior as a paladin, try to keep uncontested block atleast 50-60%, 70% is the hard cap but heroic mobs shouldn't be hitting you to hard with your full potent gear and 800k hp. DPS Mod - 600 Multi-Attack - 120 Haste - 160 Accuracy - If you dont use ACT I suggest using it to see what your actual hit rate is, I am guessing it was 80, so you only need 20% accuracy BUT if you are always tanking drop the accuracy for strikethrough. Those things right there are easy reforges and adornment changes. After that you can start swapping in some of the potent weapon damage bonus armor to at least get the STA that the fabled doesn't have and push your self dps more.
I'd like to add that if you have a summoner in the group, their pet makes a great amends target (especially if they soulburn like crazy, as they should). I seldom have problems when I cast it on their pets. Another good target is heavy-hitting charmed pets in zones that have them, like halls and labs. And I agree with what was said earlier, lose those purple adorns on your armor. Keep the mit on chest and get block on shoulders, maybe a strikethrough or two if you're having hit rate issues, and as much DPS as you can.get for the rest. If you can, get Bolstered Attributes. Get a tanky neck (there's a decent one that drops in Fabled Den IIRC that gives hate as well as tank stats) and if you're squishy you may want to use all tanky jewelry (as opposed to the healer ear and wrist). You shouldn't need more than 15k mit and I believe 120% block? There's no reason why you can't get 100% cast and reuse these days, especially if you can afford a good supply of those cast/recast temp adorns. You want at least 115 MA. DPS can be tough to reach 600 but do your best to get there. Don't reforge to get accuracy or strikethrough, that's a waste.
I agree with OP. ... But I still have some advice. Please don't reforge for strikethrough :/ For heroics, you absolutely have no reason to take int line. Use strength until you have enough reforging power to switch over. (Hint: You currently do not) The amount of gains from int are very minor. Ability mod is easy to get, and reflect alone is not a useful save or damage tool. In fact, your AAs in general are kind of a disaster. You don't need 10 points in higher ground. You don't need any points in it. You don't need to max out crit chance, especially for heroics. Higher levels of hammer ground are solid. You only need 3 points in Barrier of Divinity to remove the detrimental from it. Arch heal > cure spells. But I wouldn't take either if I were you. Put the points into your dragon tree (last line is good dps. Max out the other stuff too), and pick up Gallantry in Shadows for the taunt boost. In heroic, Confidence is pointless. It's normalized reuse reduction, and you should be capped. And in prestige, go dual conversion or full right side. It will help tremendously. Put 1 point in field commander and arbiter of justice. Take away from the avoid buff. If you have any other questions, PM me.
