Overall retexture of the entire world +Expansions

I read awhile back in an interview, cannot remeber which SOE person it was, that they realized the 'realistic' textures was not a very big hit with the fans. So they moved away from that some with EoF and tried to capture that 'magic' that EQ originally had. Now while I think EoF did better with that, the old world suffered. Some of the zones are just aweful to look at. Freeport, Zek, some sections of Qeynos, Enchanted Lands(This place should look...enchanting) and so on. All of it has to do with the textures. There is nothing wrong with the actual models. Lets be blunt, on alot of places it just looks like procedural textures were applied to the mesh. And it really does look dreadful. It makes alot of surfaces look like plastic or rubber and completely kills out that 'fantasy' feeling. The graphics are so uninspired I don't even think I have taken more the 4 screenshots the entire time I have played EQ2 on and off over the years.
So what I am going to suggest is SOE get some artists that can make nice hand drawn painted textures and retexture the entire world. Just give all the art assets an upgrade visually and release it as a small xpac for a reasonable amount of money. I'm sure many fans, my family included would greatly appriciate it.
Graphics can be stylized, colorful and full of fantasy without looking like a venture into cartoon land. I think a graphical overhaul is exactly what this game needs to really shine. The gameplay is so amazing in EQ2. My family and I have been playing it on and off sense release. But we all agree that the graphics are...no offense intended...ugly the way they currently are. A talented graphical overhaul could put a healthy dose of 'magic' and 'high fantasy' into the game and really make this excellent game stand out and be recognized. As far as I have seen, the only thing making WoW seem better then EQ2 to alot of people is graphics. EQ2 has better gameplay, better tradeskills, more variety in classes and advancement, awesome housing and guild systems and so on. All it needs is a fresh coat of paint to make it really shout out to the public.
Lets say you built an awesome car. This thing was sweet. Under the hood this car was amazing. But on the outside it was a dull grey color with splotches here and there...no shine...no color...nothing to really stand out and say "I am a badarse car". Ofcourse if you drove the car..you would be like 'woah'. But you definately couldn't see it on the outside.
Well EQ2 is like that. It has a great engine. Under the hood it's completely awesome. But you wouldn't know it by looking at it. You'd have to drive it first. When games are being hyped before release, what do game devs release to build that hype? Screen Shots. Now why do you suppose? Because ....like it or not....people do look at the packaging first....then if that caught interested they delve deeper, read interviews. Then if that's cool, they might try the game. While graphics don't 'make' a game, it sure does help.

Anyhow, I just thought I'd throw this out there.
Lady Eternity

If anything, i hope they go into EOF and re-texture kelethin to have a more realistic look... It would be wonderful if they could make it look like the tree lift in Eldar Grove in Qeynos.

Actually, I like the graphics used currently, and I even like the texturing. I don't want the cartoonish feel that WOW has. IMO, the only things WOW has going for it are the colors and the variety of armor. High fantasy? Fine. Hand drawn/painted look? No, thank you. WOW graphics are inferior to EQ2. That is my opinion. They're more colorful, but their quality is horrid.
Do I think some of the old world zones could be redone? Yes. I think they could brighten it up and add a bit more color, perhaps not make it quite so... gloomy. This they've tried to do when they revamped certain areas, such as the druid rings in the Commonlands. Enchanted Lands looks gorgeous to me. I'm sorry if it doesn't to you. It may not look good in your eyes because you've seen it so many times and for such a long time at that. Truthfully, I think that is perhaps the biggest part of the issue. We've seen the old world zones so many times that when we see something new, our first inclination is to jump onto that and say, "Hey. This is better." It's kind of a grass is greener complex... sort of.
While I wouldn't mind the grass actually being "greener" (literally), that doesn't mean I want a complete and total overhaul. Less earth-tones and more color. The texture is fine.

@OP
Hmm, I totally disagree myself.
The old world zones are still some of the best looking. The frozen wastes of Everfrost, clinging jungles of Feerrott and blasted landscape of Lavastorm are still visual feasts. When Desert of Flames came out, the quality continued. Poets Palace and Shimmering Citadel both look really nice, Maj Dul although crazily designed still looked amazing and suitably different to anything that came before.
Then came Kingdom of Sky. Oh dear, I dont know what happened to this expansion but all that creativity went out of the window and we got drabness aplenty. Bonemire still in my opinion is the most lacklustre, uninspired borefest of a zone in the game so far. Possibly Deathtoll is the best this expansion had to give.
A return to form with Echoes of Faydwer. Now we got some sumptuous visuals back, care and detail returned for the most part. Castle Mistmoore is my favourite here. A pity the excellent looking zones are spoiled a little by thoughtless mob placement.
Since EoF things have only got better. We have Unrest - arguably one of the best zones in the game. Darklight Woods which is great and Neriak which looks absolutely spot on. From the few screenies of the Shard of Fear I have seen, that also looks like a quality zone.
I think the zone visuals are only getting better of late. The only thing thats spoiling them is the mob "saturation" levels are way too high. Loping Plains being the worst offender here. There simply are far too many mobs in a zone thats supposed to be a scary old castle and a creepy village in perpetual twilight.
Zone design aside, SOE are doing a superb job with the visuals.
Edited to make it clearer who I was replying to.

Guy De Alsace wrote:

I think I might be able to shed a little insight on what happened with KOS. I thought Tenebrous Tangle was awesome. By the time you get into Barren Sky is where the drabness comes in. According to lore, the Plane of Sky was inhabited by the djinn before the droags and dragons came in. There are quests up there that also confirm this. That's why much of Barren Sky looks similar to DOF. Then you get into the 3 times of day that were represented in the planes and then re-represented in KOS. Bonemire is the land of twilight, hence why it's always night there.
Having come from EQ1 (where I would lead newbies up to the Plane of Sky so I could see their reactions when they asked, "Ummm. How do I leave?" Answer: "You jump." "WHAT?!") and knowing a bit of the lore for that area, I thought KOS was fairly well done.
Anyhow, just some insight into why KOS might have been done the way it was. You can ignore my ramblings.

Sapphirius wrote:

I completely agree. I don't want the cartoony WoW style of art. Actually, I was more thinking EQ1 style graphics. With bright vivid colors where appropriate and lots of nice artwork texturing (Eq was nice at it's time period ). I've always had a fondness for the the graphical marriage of realistic with artistic drawn textures. It makes for some stunning results.
Just an example of what I am referring to would be like this game's graphics: http://www.swordofthenewworld.com/screenshots.php
They are both realistic and beautiful, artfully done. Nice vivid colors and extreamly detailed texturing. Just because art is drawn doesn't mean it looks like WoW or a cartoon. There are plenty of games sporting drawn artful texturing that don't look anything like the kiddie cartoon games. The current textures in EQ2 in my opinion don't stand out and grab like in the example I posted. They look rather sloppy in many places...and definately bland.
I am not jaded, admittedly I have played this game for a longwhile. But...for example...when I went into the enchanted lands for the first time my husband remebers vividly me saying "Hrm, this doesn't look anything like Misty Thicket" and it certainly didn't look enchanted. Greater Faydark looks more enchanted then that zone.
But anyhow, it's all opinion really. And mine is no better then yours. So lets agree to disagree. I still stand on my opinion as you probably on yours. I would like the optional texture upgrade if possible...but it's not like it would stop me from playing if it didn't come. I just thought it would be nice in leu of the soon to be released up coming crop of MMO's, you know, something to make people go "ooooo" about.

Lady Eternity

Sapphirius wrote:

Hand-drawn does not mean WoW looking.

This page http://lineage2.xenemy.com/arthr1.htm is a grand example of things that are hand-drawn, NOT cartoon network, and push the fantasy setting.

And then the ingame representation still doesn't come across as cartoon, but it is hand-drawn http://www.l2nordic.dk/cms/media/pics/frontl.jpg

Scenic shot here http://www.l2nordic.dk/cms/media/ga.../hotsprings.jpg

Sapphirius wrote:

Thats interesting, I guessed the Djinn or something from that area must have been around in Barren Sky at some point. I never played EQ1 so am missing a huge chunk of the "why?" when it comes to things that are in the EQ2 world.
My reasoning is that the islands in KoS are individually pretty small and most of them contain more of the same. If the Djinn and whatnot inhabited it earlier, I would expect more redecorating from the current inhabitants than there is.
I'm not saying KoS is bad, just more lacklustre than the rest of the game. Bonemire especially.

I really don't think those screenshots and pictures look better than what we have. In fact, they look worse... my opinion on the matter. WOW was just an example of a world where it's all painted/drawn. LOTRO is another example, and I don't like it there any more than I did on WOW.
I seriously don't think that EQ2 is like a badarse car with drab splotchy grey painting. In my opinion, it is both packaged and presented better than any MMORPG out there and looks better in game than any other. (Again, this is my opinion.) What hurts SOE's subscriber base is what I feel is a decided lack of aggression in their marketing.

Sapphirius wrote:

It's just a matter of preference of the userbase....and potential user base. Most people want to escape reality when playing a game. Get away from the real world and all that rot. And some people want a game to mirror the real world. Nothing wrong with that. It's just a different need. To me, I don't want my games to look real. If I wanted real I would go outside and enjoy the real thing. When I play a game, I don't want it to be 'real' or 'real looking'. I don't find it pleasing to see a photograph...albeit edited..plastered on a mesh, or a generated pattern thrown on the terrain with a bit of bump mapping to simulate textures. I much prefer a texture artist to spend time and imagination creating something amazing. A texture can turn an otherwise blah mesh into something amazing. I value artistic impression and expression. And when I am playing a fantasy game, I enjoy seeing outlandish and beautifully textured and modeled worlds, as well as the creatures inhabiting them. I think most of the models in EQ2 are great. But the entire texture thing needs alot of work. If you go into a game like LOTRO or many others and take a SS of something basic...like armor. A full suit of plate, then take one in EQ2 and put them side by side the difference is astounding.
Fantasy games are suppose to spark a person's imagination when they are playing. And for most folks....'real' doesn't honestly do it. If you took a movie like say...Legend and took away all the visual eye candy and the fantasy effects and imaginative and completely unreal world, and put the story in a more 'real' setting...it would kill the charm of the movie.
But as I have said, not everyone is the same (thank goodness ) and people have different tastes. Perhaps making the xpac at first optional...just to see how it is received. If the majority of people purchase it..and use it...then perhaps moving the game into that direction wouldn't be a bad thing. I don't want it to look like WoW. I want it to look like a high fantasy, incredibly breathtaking imaginative world where I will feel a desire to take SS's and have oooo moments...like I have in other games.
Lady Eternity

Well, no offense, but that's not really a good way to determine if everyone feels this way or not either. Of course people are going to buy a new x-pak or adv-pak and use it. It's more content and more experience. The only way they're going to determine this is by getting player feedback from more than just the same 3 people on the forums (myself included when I say that). EQ2 is a beautiful game and nothing even remotely close to mirroring the real world in my eyes, and if you're not happy with it, then why are you still playing it?
This debate is the same as SOGA models versus non-SOGA models. Everyone will have their preference, but changing something that drastic to attract a new market also runs the very real risk of losing a large chunk of the current market they have as well. SOE already learned their lesson with SWG. They changed the combat system to attract a new market and lost a significant chunk of the market they already had. While I know that NGE addressed combat as opposed to art, it's still the same principle.

Sapphirius wrote:

I really don't see how something can be 'drastic' if it's optional. And generally speaking, art will not change anything about the game except the way it looks. It's not going to effect combat or other core systems. It might effect tradeskills..but in a positive manner...as the new art might make people have a bigger more renewed interest in certain craftable items like clothing and furniture. Infact, maybe even armor...sense there is an appearance tab now. I do think however comparing the NGE in SWG to an EQ2 texture upgrade is a bit of a stretch. The NGE basically rewrote the entire game.
Also, perhaps a poll ingame would be good to determine what people really think, doesn't seem to be much board activity really.
With all that being said, this was just a suggestion. I respect you don't share my view. For some reason you seem to be itching for a debate, and I really am not. I just wanted to post this up for the devs, to let them know there are people out there that think this could use improving. I really don't think it was nessesary for you to question why I am playing the game. I don't really think this game needs people doing that. The players should be supporting each other to build a strong community, not driving them away simply because they differ in opinions.
Lady Eternity

I don't agree at all. The first time I saw Greater Faydark - and especially the Nursery - I fake gagged myself, it looked just like the starter zones in WoW - all clashing screaming Technicolor, mushrooms and bizarro plants. I have since gotten used to it, and I know some people like those areas. I just get stuck on roots and find GF horribly difficult to navigate due to all the roots and loose bits everywhere.
I much prefer Freeport, and I know other people who do as well. Coming into Freeport the first time when I started playing, I went WAOW and it sold the game to me. And Enchanted Lands to me are one of my favorite zone. I can't think of any game which to me looks better... maybe Vanguard, but the character models in VG last time I played (a bit back) was underwhelming compared to EQ2.
EQ2 is no old scruffy car. If that is how it looks to you, then perhaps you should play something else instead of wanting it to changing. The threat of the SOGA model style being forced on everyone with the skeleton revamp is bad enough.
How many of these superior-looking games have you really played? If a game looks good on screenshots, it usually is either laggy or have very peculiar motion patterns (Guild Wars comes to mind). EQ2 has neither - it has really good character movement, armor/clothes very rarely clip, and its not overly laggy. The screenshots in the thread are not better looking at all IMO, they look like drawings, not a game character. I'm not going to say it has to look realistic - but it shouldn't look like a paper drawing cutout either. Like those cartoony films in the 70s where a paperdoll was cut out and then moved around the screen.
I can understand how people feel differently, that's not it. But - EQ2 does have a very distinct look. Some of us prefer that - its a big part of why I play EQ2 and not CandyQuest Online.

LadyEternity wrote:

During one of the developer panels at Fan Faire, one of the Devs (Lockeye?) mentioned that many of the "old-world" zones would see some "sprucing up" in the future. The example he gave was that Freeport, for example, would get cleaned up a little to look less drab and dreary - more grand, etc.

So I think what you are hoping to see is already in the works on some level. It could be next year sometime before they release the improved art look, but by all indications it is being worked on.

Frankly, it's simple. If you don't have a good graphics card and a decent computer and you have your graphics settings on low, you will see the world as drab and ugly. If you get computer upgrades, though, and nudge your graphics settings up, you will see some amazing things.

I was in Stormhold last night with my settings 1 below max. I was astounded by the details I never saw before. I was actually pausing in several places to just look (I was wandering there at level 50). I hadn't been there in a long time and seeing it with new eyes and a few upgrades since the last time I was there and it was incredible.

Was it cartoony "pretty"? no. It looked like stone, the skellies looked like bone, the shadows looked like shadows, the paint on the floor in various places looked like paint on top of stone. It looked exactly like the promo pictures of the dungeon about a year before release. It looked like my idea of "high fantasy", not a comic book land.

But, I know people could look with the same computer and graphics settings and notice that the stone is brown, the skellies have brown high lights, there's yellow-brown sand in places, and it's not flashy.

In my opinion, having magical fantastic things happening in a realistic world is more believable and enjoyable than magical fantastic things happening in a cartoony, unrealistic world. Everyone knows critters in cartoons can run off cliffs, hover in midair for a comedy moment then plummet a few thousand feet to the ground with no ill effects, or look into a gunbarrel, it goes off and the worse that happens is they get soot on their face.
Magical things happening in a pin-sharp realistic world makes it seem far more special.

Personally, I loved the look of the starter island and was always a little disappointed leaving it. I think it set expectations higher than were then delivered upon entering the world proper...
Two old world zones that I would really like some time spent on are Antonica and Nektulos, I think if they just did some work on the lighting effects if nothing else it would make a big difference.

I just got a new computer and ran around with the graphics of max quality. To be honest Freeport looks decent (though repetitive) with lighting and shadows. It looks like a very old city that is being used by an evil overlord.

Kelethin needs some work... A lot of work. It looks slapped together and plan. I would much rather they made it so you zoned into the city from the elevators and then have a separate city zone with more than just a bunch of platforms that stuck on trees. They could have it suspended from branches, clinging to the side of the trees, and peaking out through the top of the forest. The acorn look doesn't appeal to me at all and the huts on platforms was one of the things that made no sense to me in EQ1.

I also found Nariak to be a bit bland. Huts in a cave... Yawn! I'm disappointed in both the new cities.

Xova wrote:

Yep, but correct me if I'm wrong. This isn't a complete retexturing of the zones to switch it to a hand-painted look. It's a change in lighting, color, and some environmental placement.

LadyEternity wrote:

I love how it is that the minute one person disagrees with another, suddenly, it's not a discussion. It's the dissenter "itching" for a fight. There is a difference between building a strong community and blindly supporting each other no matter what the issue is. It is conflict that makes a person or community stronger because out of conflict comes compromise.
You get people (you, Proudfoot) at one extreme that wants every texture changed so that it's less realistic, and that truly is a drastic change to the game. You get people (Josgar, Chayna) on the other side saying no, I'd like it if it were more realistic. Then you get the people in the middle (me, Guy de Alsace, Rijacki, Arcanthis) who say that we like the game texture as it is, but perhaps the color could be fresher and brighter. From there, a compromise must be reached by the devs.
If your response to conflict is to say "Let's agree to disagree" in the same breath that you tell someone they are wrong for having the opinion they do, then you are going to have problems... and this is just in a game.