Okay, I have been wondering this now since the expansion came out.. What is the use of having our class on a raid now??? We were supposed to be given some raid defining characteristic that would make our class wantable on raids... It seems we are in the SAME position again but with a dps boost.. One that probably in the end STILL won't match that of a wizzy, warlock, or assassin etc. So if we aren't topping the dps then what utility do we bring a raid thats a must have? I am not bashing anything I am just VERY curious because I am deciding whether or not I should continue building my newly level 90 conj
DPS, DPS, and more DPS. We also provide survivability through Runes of Geomancy, and our raidwide buff is a definite boost to the raid. Elemental Toxicity is also a ginormous DPS boost for our group on AoE fights (although they will be rare in SF).
Fhenix wrote: It's hard to say to be honest, but with the gains that summoners have received with Sentinel's Fate, plus the very generous amount of pet effects added to Sentinel's Fate instance and raid gear (especially with the new Molten Carnage stat) I would expect Conjurors will be able to meet, or exceed Sorcerer DPS right now. Our raidwide buff is 3% potency, 3% max HP, and 5% armor effectiveness.
Xalmat wrote: Your initial reaction to raid gear was a pretty negative one during Beta. Would you say this has changed since the initial batch of raid gear you saw? So far I have only seen legendary gear, and I must say it's not bad at all for legendary. Pretty much in-line with the previous tier fabled, which is what I usually observed when a new tier comes up.
The new effect on Fire Seed makes us viable utility as well. Slap that on a DPS class and they get 5% strikethrough on all attacks... which is -very- nice. I notice people are loving having me in groups for that reason, plus the insane DPS boost!
Lantis@Antonia Bayle wrote: The raid armor itself I'm still not terribly pleased with. However based on the jewelry that we have available, of which there is an abundance of very useful pet effects (Molten Carnage, Power Flux, Quicksilver Blood, and even Destructive Forces is somewhat available) it's proven to be a very effective boost to summoners compared to TSO.
It remains to be seen but I expect very good wizards to be pretty much unbeatable by just about anyone. The DPS wizards are putting out is pretty insane at the top end right now. Not to stay out damage is bad but I'm skeptical in a min/max situation that beating a same skilled wizard is feasible, as it should be. Now that said, we do have a few utility things that are kind of useful. For hard fights people will want the 3% health 5% phys mit raid wide effect our myth pet has and some of our abilities are tailored to making the mage group we are in just a little less squishy. I'd say this is the most viable we've been in a long time but as Xalmat put it, our primary role is dps and I'd say our secondary and tertiary role is dps. Our utility is mostly replacable so its DPS that is gonna keep your spot.
The other utility that we have is we (along with Necromancers) are perhaps the best class for odd-jobs during raids, like clickies and the like. The glory days of Druushk, Nexona, and Venril Sathir are best forgotten. However there's plenty of Shadow Odyssey fights (Thet-em-aua, Zarrakon, Mynzak, Ozyk, Umzok, Munzok, Field General) and Sentinel's Fate fights (Parmare twins immediately come to mind) that involve clickies or running around finding things. Summoners are able to perform these roles while leaving their pets focused on the named. This way we don't completely lose out on damage output like other classes would.
Kain-UK wrote: you do know that strikethrough is working only on "blocks" which only happesn if your are in front of a mob ... scouts are in the back of a mob ! Runes of geomancy was nerfed so badly ... it now only good for heroic play or the rare times you have a tank in group
I would anticipate summoners will still stay well below wizards in DPS in most situations. But how does conjy dps compare to the necro's?
Axanar wrote: Right now, Conjurors seem to have an edge; The dramatic increase in pet gear effectiveness, combined with our pet being a much more important component of our DPS than the Necro's pet is for their DPS, plus Elemental Blast, seems to have made a gap between the two classes. That and the amount of skilled top-end Conjurors far exceeds the amount of skilled top-end Necromancers makes it really hard to do real solid comparisons. However, historically Conjurors have always been the better class in AoE situations, and Necromancers have been better in the single target front.
thog_zork wrote: Considering it says it works on a successful avoidance check, then I would assume it'd still have a chance of working for a scout if by some reason the mob manages to dodge, parry or riposte from the rear... And let's be honest, we HAVE seen them do that! Either way, it's still extra damage. With regards to conjys vs sorcerers, so far I've been keeping up with a similarly geared wizzie of the same level. Though apparently wizzies are pulling 16-20k DPS at the momemnt, whereas I seem to be somwhere around 9-13k... though I think I need gear and spell upgrades.
Thank you for the very detailed response Xalmat. I used to be a skilled-necromancer before I switched to my illusionist. I think it may be a good time to betray and see what the other side of the summoners is like (used to be an EQ1 mage). If I betray, do I keep my necromancer mythical? (in case I ever go back?) or as a novelty item Thanks!
On beta at least, doing the epic quest epic repercussions will remove all epic/myth weapons from you. Both necro and conjuror. This is to prevent you from getting one myth weapon, and then the other classes' myth buff then betraying and geting a new myth buff from the docks guy so that you can have Myth + myth buff on one character. Things might have changed but I'd expect all myths/epics on your person to be gone when you complete the quest and you'll have to complete the quest at some point since for various reasons, sticking with the myth pet when you are level 90 doesn't work very well.
After completing the quest, your mythical is removed, and replaced with the fabled version, which only offers the basic weapon stats (+crit chance, etc...). This means you can still use it as a weapon, until you find a suitable replacement. All the other buffs are applied to you through the newly acquired buff.
Xalmat wrote: I was third or forth on the parse ina recent t8 raid behind all level 90 toons and Im only 85 so far. Get your myth comversion quest done as fast as you can though. It adds a HUGE chunck and dps.
With Elementsl Blast the conjurors are now top parse above sorcerers. Also with this ability conjurors lead summoners in single target DPS, as well as multi target (which they always had). Elemental Blast also is still smoking players in Battle Grounds even though adjusted. Enjoying these benefits, however there isn't much summoner balance right now. I saw no need to reduce recast of Elemental Blast in beta, it was too powerful even then. Enjoy it while it lasts.
Cisgo wrote: You forget that Fiery Blast does more damage than Elemental Blast does which wizards got this expac. And while the ramp up damage to fiery cant be effected by double attack the spell itself can and fiery blast has hit for 350k on beta raids. Sure if the wizard is average or subpar they'll be beatable by a top notch conj but a top notch wizard is gonna win the parse period except perhaps on AE in which case the Lock will likely win unless the lock and conj are in separate groups then it might be close once you factor in toxicity. You can't just selectively overlook the tools each class is getting. Yes Necros didn't get enough but Wizards/Warlocks and Conjurors did to keep a reasonable balance between the three classes.Necros need to be buffed certainly, then they will fit in nicely beside conjurors in terms of mage dps and hey the casters will actually be balanced now.
I've noticed that while I have a primary pet up, that the pet casts a raid-wide buff that increases damage. I've noticed that necros have recieved a similar buff from their pets being up as well. I double checked to make sure that it wasn't an effect from some piece of gear or a set bonus..it's not. Not from any AA's either.
