There have been questions recently about where wizards and warlocks are intended to fit in terms of damage output, as some players are concerned that these classes aren't fulfilling their role in this regard. I thought I'd address some of these questions in a general way, with the understanding that specific answers will have to wait until we have evaluated the damage output of all classes. This post does not promise any timeframe for when changes may occur. Generally speaking, wizards and warlocks are intended to have the highest overall damage output, with the two subclasses being roughly equivalent to one another. If wizards and warlocks are not achieving that level of damage output now (and we agree there are cases that they are not), we will be adjusting class balance accordingly. In some situations this means other classes will be reduced in the amount of damage they do, while in other cases wizard and warlock damage may be upgraded. There is no one simple fix that will properly balance all classes, but rather it is an intricate system of weights and measures that takes time to adjust. Having said the above, players need to realize that there may be instances where wizards and warlocks are not doing the highest damage. At certain levels another class may get a new ability that surpasses wizards and warlocks, because all classes don't get the same kinds of abilities at the same level (i.e. a scout may get a new high-damage art at a given level while a mage gets a new utility spell). In general, wizard/warlock damage will be highest, though there is no iron-clad guarantee that this will be the case in every possible situation. Another factor is the quality of abilities being compared. A wizard/warlock should not assume that they can outdamage everyone based on the Apprentice I versions of their spells. For instance, if an assassin has a Master I level ability, a wizard/warlock may do less damage if using an Apprentice III version of a similar-level spell. Please remember that spell/art upgrades are a crucial part of every class' ultimate potential. No class should assume that with no effort or work on their part that they can be the "master" of anything, including damage output. Also keep in mind that no matter how much work is put into class balance, it is likely that some people will never be satisfied with the results. This is partly because players often view their class with a combination of personal preference and emotional bias that causes them to say things like "this is what a wizard should be" when in fact a wizard is what each particular game makes of it. Our goal is that all classes have fun and powerful abilities that make every class enjoyable to play. This is perhaps the most crucial aspect of game balance, far more important than parsing numbers or comparing stats.
It is pretty sad that since the Crafter nerf - a crafter can inflict more damage than a Wizard/Warlock in some cases :smileysad: - rofl Message Edited by Decon_ on 01-18-2005 05:44 PM
I think Moorgard, after reading some of the posts that a lot of the classes from 40 - 50 were not balanced correctly. (Nice post here http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=spellart&message.id=19205) It appears that some of the upgrades to mages spells were just lower spells tweaked to handled the higher level mobs without a conresponding increase in damage. If you check the posts you will see where a wizard, I believe, was using a higher level spell but, the comments stated the name of the lower level spell. (From this post: http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=spellart&message.id=17531) In addition, higher level mages do not get a corresponding increase in their power to offset their lower HP. As was also pointed out, a fighter and scout at the higher levels have higher AC but thier power pools is the same or greater than a mages. IMHO -- I believe that the higher levels were not able to be checked out before release and/or have enough data. Message Edited by Nerjin on 01-18-2005 08:34 PM
Turn down other classes? IMHO the other class are about right the war/wiz need to be turned up another 10% or maybe a little more. I dont play a wizard or warlock. I play a Fury.
This was a good recent thread that summed it up nicely. http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=spellart&message.id=18670#M18670 I'm just happy that the devs read this or other threads and are aware of the problem, coz some of the issues are very real.
Thanks for the update. Seems like many of the higher end spells need to be looked at. Damage just doesnt scale properly.
/quote Generally speaking, wizards and warlocks are intended to have the highest overall damage output, with the two subclasses being roughly equivalent to one another. If wizards and warlocks are not achieving that level of damage output now (and we agree there are cases that they are not), we will be adjusting class balance accordingly. /endquote Thank you for taking the time to finally address this issue. Unfortunately there are currently no cases where wizards and warlocks are achieving that goal. Short battles, long battles, solo encounters, multiple mob encounters, etc. all have the wizard lacking in the overall damage output. In addition to the lack of overall damage, we suffer from subpar utility abilites compared to those classes that outdamage us as well as those that dont. Take your time getting around to it, my wiz will remain retired and my subscription cancelled untill you do. Message Edited by Finnatae on 01-18-2005 05:47 PM
I wait with baited breath...... At least the problem (balance issue) has been identified and is being looked into.
Hmm, but I thought all mage DPS classes are supposed to be equal in damage? If Wizards and Warlocks are supposed to do the most damage, then what are the Conjuror and Necromancer for? Because if Wizards and Warlocks outdamage Conjurors and Necromancers, I see little point in playing a Necromancer or Conjuror.
THANK YOU!!!!!! :smileyvery-happy: Seriously, my husband and I were discussing just last night if it were time to move on, but your response has restored my faith. I do understand how difficult overall class balance must be and would not have to address the issue, but it is disheartening that there will be future nerfs to other classes. As for upgrading spells, I think most of us understand that, and I started my concern for wizard issues because many higher lvl people bringing these problems to attention do have very viable spell upgrades. Could you also look into our utility factor? As it is not on par with other utilities of the game, although I know that is a secondary concern. More importantly for me, and just for me, I speak for no one else, is the fact that a mage's base damage is a mage's base damage, we cannot obtain weapons that melee classes can to increase our damage or be different in damage from another mage with the same upgrades. It's only a concern for me as I do not really like "cookie cutter" characters. Very appreciated that you responded. It does go a long way with me.
Well im just glad for a response.. We've been in silence for so long i was starting to believe that SOE wasnt paying attention and didnt care.
1) Thanks 2) We wizards might be over zealous in out opinions of what a wizard "should be". 3) It is your right to decide what a wizard "will be". 4) I simply request that when your done, you can "look me in the eye" and say you think its reasonably fair.
I'm not sure I like that part about, "We're going to nerf some classes to make others look better". =(
DalrenFieryblade wrote: Hmm, but I thought all mage DPS classes are supposed to be equal in damage? If Wizards and Warlocks are supposed to do the most damage, then what are the Conjuror and Necromancer for? Because if Wizards and Warlocks outdamage Conjurors and Necromancers, I see little point in playing a Necromancer or Conjuror. Conj and Necro's have pets enchanter class has CC and utility wiz/warlock have damage anyway thanks moorgard i think thats what everyone wanted to know excellent post. i know theres no way of giving an eta but please dont forget about us now that we know someone was listening.
Conj and Necro's have pets enchanter class has CC and utility wiz/warlock have damage What is this supposed to mean? What do you think pets do, dance, sing and make jokes? They are also doing damage. In the 40+ game pets are not longer able to offtank as easily as pre 40 with NPCs hitting for 1k + , so all pet classes bring to the game is damage
ah moorgaurd you put faith back in me :-D.... i was beginning to give up after all these posts even though i made a post bout toughing it up and staying as a wizz
First, thank you so much Moorgard. The fact that you even addressed this issue directly increases my respect for you. With all the things posted here, it was clear there could be no answer that would please everyone. Or even most. As usual, it seems you took your time and considered all things and posted a meaningful answer to an issue brought up by many. Many people just wanted the standard "We are looking into" to at least know their voices where heard. But you gave more then just that. As for those people responding negatively to this post, shame on you. You got many answers you have wanted. Yes, wizards and warlocks are meant to be the highest DPS. Yes there are issues with the DPS for those classes higher up. Saddly it will invovle lowering other classes DPS at those levels. Expect a backlash against wizards/warlocks. Regardless of why the damage ratios are changed, many people will see it as a response to wizards whinning. Those saying they won't resubscribe till Sony fixes just what they want. Perhaps you shouldn't once it happens. The game wasn't good enough for you before, so why come back. It will never be good enough for you. There was so much negative posts by people here, some that had left the game all together and yet still kept posting. Again, thank you so much Moorgard for handling a dirty job so well.
There are always people whinning. When the chorus becomes so loud and "in tune", you have a good indication there might be validity. If players wanted it fixed and it gets fixed, why shouldn't they subscribe? Free-markets dictate that SOE will lose if they make a bad product. Why should SOE not be allowed to win if they improve the product? Now if there was REAL justice, the wizards who took cheap shots at their kin for pointing out these issues would be rewarded with the "unfixed" versions of these broken spells.
