NON-RAID GUARDS exist in this game

I'm starting this thread because I have an alt Guardian I have been playing for many years.
I rember when game developers introduced the fighter revamp part 1 i was concerned with loosing so much agro from the Stamina Line adjustment and rember game developers saying that fighter revamp part 2 would finish balancing out the class, well Part 2 of the fighter revamp was scraped and my Guardian is still missing a large portion of aggression that was never replaced.

Guardians with out mythicals and raid gear where never over powerd in Rok or at any other time in this games post GU 13 history. So I can't help but to feel like game developers have forgoten about players that choose to play Guardians with heroic content and solo questing in mind.
I can understand that there have been many other ingame issues that might have taken priority over this, but I urge game developers to please pay close attention to the dilemma the NON RAID GUARDIAN faces.
The class is usually the main tank of many raid guilds and thus recives all the best buffs in the game and very powerfull armor and jewlery. This gives the class a FALSE presence of being very powerfull when in fact, the NON RAID GUARDIAN has very little agro generation, no damage abilitys and do to the recent abilitys given to most other PLATE tanks, all roughly have the same LONGEVITY.
It's very clear to me that the Stamina changes affected both Bezerkers and Guardians BUT the fact that NON RAID GUARDIANS lost a major source of aggression generation is CRYSTAL clear.

I would like to end my post by asking a simple question:
Why has my NON RAID GUARDIAN been adjusted at all?
my NON RAID GUARDIAN did not have 70% + double attack dual wielding with and extra 8% uncontested avoidance in RoK, my NON RAID GUARDIAN did not have a tower shild on with an extra 8% uncontested avoidance.
In my opinion the RoK Guardian mythical was not over powerd since a powerfull main tank help the raid over all, but it can not be denied that any Guardian that did not possess this weapon was not in anyway shape or form over powerd or out of line with class balance.

The first place Aerilik goes to read about class specific issues is the sticky threads on class issues.... which would be here for guardians.
Pretty much every piece of your rant has already been covered in this thread. Hope you feel better though.
I'm not trying to be condesending or anything... it's just that if you really want dev attention, there is a thread specifically designed for that, which aerilik has said he looks at first when/if he decides to do it. Also there is /feedback in game which probably gets at least read, as opposed to class issue forums that might get a brief glance of the first page once in a blue moon.

Rahatmattata wrote:

thanks for the link but that seems to be for the most part a raid guardians concern section. made this post to focus on the players that don't have acces to raid gear. It has been a long time problem for the class and I am thinking dealing with it in this way might stop this from happening in the future.

Guardian is a raiding class. It has a singular purpose and its 'advantages' in performing that purpose only comes into play on raids.....and even then only on certain raid encounters or when a guild is tackling a raid mob for the first time.
Its something that I have just now started coming to grips with.
I think its just been more obvious with TSO which is so heavily Heroic group centric.
To make matters worse.....our advantage as a raiding class has become smaller and smaller while our disadvantage as a group tank or soloer has gotten larger and larger.
If your goal is primarily to do heroic content or solo then pick another class. SOE is not gonna give you what you are asking for.

I disagree.
I raid - but almost rarely as an MT. I'm not fabled out geared with a mythical. I do have T2 shard armor and my epic (but those are very easily attained by anyone these days).
I spend most of my time helping others in group/instance settings. I rarely run with a perfect group make up. In fact, at times, I've gotten a Warlock, a Necro who likes to have his assassin pet hit whatever I'm not targeting, a berserker who's idea of dps is hitting Sneering Assault whenever it's up, and an Inquisitor who's melee hit damage is easily 4x mine. Many times my only hate xfer is a Troub...and they don't xfer, they reduce. I think anyone would agree this is Aggro management hell.
Guards are NOT only raid tanks. I may have to work a little at keeping aggro on encounter sized mobs, but /shrug. Seriously, who wants to play a class where you can get tools/cross toon support where you can hit or taunt then go /afk get a drink and come back and the fight is wrapping up but you still hold aggro?
I can do multiple mob encounter groups. Not perfect but I can do it. I learned my class solo/duo'ing from 1 to 75. Very little group experience before that - which was bad imo. The last 5 levels opened my eyes and made me see how reliant Guards where on other classes. I rarely had that luxury. So I learned to adapt. Improvise.
I refuse to hear that we CAN'T.

EverAfterIt wrote:

Never said we can't. Anyone that thinks the Guardian was meant to be anything other than a raid tank is fooling themselves or is lucky enough to group with lesser geared and poorly played classes.
The point of this thread is that in performing class balance amongst the fighters......when it comes to Guardians SOE has only considered the top end....raid MTs......where stacking the group to ensure maximum hate is guaranteed.....and where having every bit of surviveability matters. That is the only place where their advertised Guardian avantage comes into play.
The simple truth is...you can take a good SK......with a good healer and pretty much any 4 other top-notch players and that group with have almost no aggro problems and clear most TSO instances in short order. Not so with Guardian.
And since TSO that same SK is also a very viable option to MT raids....and it alot of cases a better option. IMO they are the only fighter class that is balanced with all the games content taken into account.

Gaylon@Mistmoore wrote:

No thanks i don't rember there being a disclaimer under Guardian class saying *useless for everything but raids*

my guard has done fine till this expac when game developers decided to adjust damage on a class that all ready had NO dmg. i mean sure RAID GUARDS could do good damage but NON RAID guards where bottom of the barrel.

EverAfterIt wrote:

Yes that's fine and dandy and i also make the class work and can tank in any situation but that does not mean that I'm gonna let a class i like get screwd over because game developers can not keep RAID gear in check.
MOST guards ARE NOT raid guard and that adjustment to STA line should have been replaced by something else and it was not.

half of the problem is with the players, players who refused to learn how to DPS as a tank. DPS is aggro, you are now learning how important your DPS was to your aggro and is your responsibility as a tank. yes, your job is more difficult in that you now have to balance your gear and DPS out better than ever before. of course i'm not saying i still don't see a problem but you can't be ignorant and claim it as a defense.
when was the last time i saw a guard in chain or leather? i don't think i have ever seen one personally wearing it. i do when the time is needed.

Lyger@Mistmoore wrote:

i have known for many years that DPS is important for my guard and that is why it upset me that my guard was nerfed when he was NOT OVERPOWERD at all.

warriors just have to roll with a slightly more optimized group than crusaders, this point has already been covered many many times before.

Lyger you are correct. But maybe I think you fail to see that people at that level and/or knowledge can't gear out like that because their healers are not geared well enough to heal them geared like that. I agree it is a balancing act, an act that shouldn't have to be so balanced IMO.
Let the man vent.. Oh i feel better already.. Where is my tea at..

we all have vented and we all took the beatings while doing it.

Lyger@Mistmoore wrote:

You can't be serious.........with my guild...and where we are in terms of gear and progressions........if I tried to MT in leather we would mean epic failure. Ive tried it....yeah I held aggro much better...before I died.
I have nothing but respect for those at the top-end of the game.....not jealous.....happy to see them get all the nice gear they work hard to get.......but all I ask is that they try to take off those rose colored glasses.....and realize that not everone has the gear, the healers and the support classes to do crazy things like MT the hard stuff in leather and without a shield.
Thats the point of this thread....at least I think.......that the fighters are being adjusted/balanced with only top-end raid performance taken into account.
And don't you think that the fact you are suggesting that a solution to the issues is for Guards to MT in leather means something is outa whack?

Toran@Oasis wrote:

lol i'm not venting man. i'm just tired of hearing how my guard was OP when he was not.
I am here to hopefully get this delt with.

Gaylon@Mistmoore wrote:

indeed the point of thread sir AND i really can't wait till some douc.h.e bag guard by the name of JOKEl comes here and says that the only guards that matter are raid guards and all other players that pay every month just don't matter.

Gaylon@Mistmoore wrote:

i'm just stating how the game is currently played. i'm also not even close to a top end raider anymore since i quit about 1/3 of the way through TSO progression about 4 months ago in disgust over how diverse crusaders have become as tanks and because i often times had to overwork myself due to roster issues.
it could be the healers you play with need a fair amount of work or that the DPS classes are very skilled and geared better than the rest of the group, these imbalances make it seem like the problem is you when the fact is it probably isn't. i always despise it when i get some poor healer(s) and no transfer or hate buffer/debuffer, it makes any warrior's job a living nightmare but even moreso for a guard when there is multiple mobs in almost every group.
i always prefer solo healing, so i can work on how well i am progressing and where my weaknesses are. i see many groups still roll with 2 healers and 1 is usually asleep, i just dislike balance issues based around failure of others, the whole issue isn't just a guardian one.

Lyger@Mistmoore wrote:

yea but the issue is here is that a class that was not overpowerd what so ever NON RAID GUARDIANS lost a significant amount of aggression generation and gained nothing in return.
yes zerks lost that same DA but gained some shild effectives and some EoF love where NON RAID GUARDIANS did not gain any AA anywhere and only lost thus starting the expansion in a whole, because they whre NOT IN ANY WAY OVRPOWERD.

the RoK guard mythical was overpowered for raiding guardians, something had to be done about it to balance them versus other tanks. we all share the pain of the stamina line nerf and i agree that looking at it now that it hurt too many non raiding warriors. if they had continued with the tank changes but only made the adjustments to allow offensive to perform as DPS and defensive to act as taunting hate aggro then none of this would be an issue. the whole stance lock thing should have been thrown out the window and the modifiers to hate and decrease to DPS tied to defensive stance and 5% more damage taken in offensive been the main changes.
they didn't have to throw the whole thing out, they just need to make it more appealing to all tanks and keep it so that there is still choices in tanking. done.

I find grouping and raids about the same, don't raid without a coercer, dirge, swashy/assassin in group, don't use a shield. Groups I really don't like it if there is not at least a dirge and a hate transfer. Lately I pretty much stopped using my taunts other then rescue and reinforcement.