New Heals not Actually Upgrades

Discussion in 'Priests' started by Mermut, Nov 29, 2017.

  1. Mermut Well-Known Member

    Why did they even bother giving healers 'upgraded' versions of our heals?
    My lvl 98 single target HoT hits and ticks for almost twice as much as the lvl 108 apprentice 'upgrade'.. AND the lvl 98 one uses less power...
    Even the experts aren't as good as my GM heals.
    I suppose this means I don't have to worry about upgrading any of my heals.... :(
  2. Beyoncia Well-Known Member

    Not to mention that every spell I cast heals for 50+ml.
  3. Earar Well-Known Member

    but we have 4,5 fervor on spores (app) 5,5 on journeyman ^^

    that's THE spell to upgrade ASAP

    I honestly don't care for spells not worth to upgrade ... means I don't need to bother ;)
  4. Fleurs Active Member


    This! Why would i upgrade spell that already heal for 500% max health... Same for ward, no point upgrading ward when they don't ever break due to damage.
    I consider myself lucky to be able to keep my role going without spending a single copper.
    Earar likes this.
  5. Sudedor Well-Known Member

    This is just another symptom of the massive imbalance of the equation health pool : heal size : mob damage. Until that's fixed properly, we'll continue to have this.
  6. Vunder Well-Known Member


    Because thats not even a quarter of the HP from a raid main tank and only about half the HP from a raid geared non-tank.

    The HP between raid geared and none raid geared is retardedly huge. In beta our tank was pushing 350 million HP, I had about 150m hp myself as a healer.

    However, that being said its still a very much full health or dead kinda game because the raid mobs hit an average of 75-100m a swing.

    (PS I don't consider T1 or T2 actual raid gear. Its nearly the same as upper end heroics.)
  7. EQAditu Member

    Once upon a time, spells upgraded every 14 levels and Masters were hard to get. Some spells took two expansions to upgrade, but they were upgrades.

    Now we have spells every 10 levels and only Ancients are hard to get. GM spells encroach heavily on the next tier of spells only 10 levels later.

    Upgrade your spells to GM again like your old ones. We can't go back in time to when it was spaced out better.
    Xillean, Kheldorm and Mermut like this.
  8. Mermut Well-Known Member

    This expac is worse then the previous ones though... perhaps because we were at lvl 100 for SOOO long that even with just research main toons are fully grandmastered.
  9. Sudedor Well-Known Member

    I can help illustrate the problem, here is a comparison of Expert specialty heal spells across all classes and levels. I apologize to Channelers, I just don't know enough about how you are balanced to include you.

    [IMG]


    Notice how Druids and Clerics only see a 1% increase? That's why people feel all weird about upgrades this tier. Effectively, the spells just aren't upgrades.

    I suspect this is an attempt to balance the heal size : player HP : mob damage equation. It's not a great attempt, but I can't think of any other reason for this. Player HP are definitely going up in PoP, and it's nearly impossible to figure the mob damage part of the equation, but in general, it looks like they are trying.

    I would feel much better about things if they'd come right out and SAY that's what they were trying to do, at least then we might be able to give them better feedback on it.
    dirgenoobforreal likes this.
  10. Kheldorm Member

    And, to continue above, in many cases the auto-slotted 'new' spells are actually downgrades; the only problem is how they land against higher levels.
    It's true that most of us old-timers have pretty much everything at grandmaster level. Using a new spell, even at expert level (f you can get them) is not really worth it. Each new tier of spells should start out at at least the equivalent of the previous tier master level, and build from there.
  11. Sudedor Well-Known Member

    In the more distant past, the upgrades were clearer. Basically, up until things got dumb between 90 and 100, an Expert spell of a new Tier was a very clear upgrade to the Master of a prior tier. Now, keep in mind, this was back in Sentinel's Fate and earlier - seven years ago!

    The last time Adepts were an upgrade over Masters was Desert of Flames. Back when Masters were really, really rare. Practically ancient history!

    After SF, spells went insane. The Experts were no longer clear upgrades to Masters. The generally were upgrades, but the differences were very slight. This is generally around the time Grandmaster spells went from the things you got one of once per Tier as a character choice to a thing you could just "get". This is probably where the train went off the tracks. Trying to fit in more spell quality choices made a mess of things.
  12. Vunder Well-Known Member

    Thing is.

    The game is designed for people to only have experts. Anything above that helps, but isnt required to do anything. I think that is the main reason upper tier spells have not gotten much attention.

    The "You must have masters and grandmasters" mentality is a thing min/maxers have caused to rub off on everyone.
  13. Kheldorm Member

    But the point is, even adept spells of a lower tier are better than the "New" versions. They screwed up. Simple
  14. EQAditu Member

    If these numbers are right, I take back what I said.

    I agree that this looks like some new dumb thing they're trying like bleedthrough. Except they're not actually telling anyone about it. Or it's a new bug like mercs over level 100 losing a lot of stats, or all of our infused gear losing their base amounts. Which is the problem with DBG's new lack of transparency policy. We the players have no idea what they intend or what are bugs.
  15. knine Well-Known Member



    define specialty spells?? you talking vital intercession for Templars? ancestral wards for shaman? which specialty spell? How do you get the % increase? Not flaming.. honest question... curious myself and I have most classes of heals.
  16. Thand Active Member

    On a lesser note Heal Servant from conj actually cures for Less. Must be all heals in general
  17. Mermut Well-Known Member

    Yup, it is.
  18. Marranda Member

    As a shaman I am using my last tier spells other than my single and group ward due to experts are a down grade, I GM'd my 2 wards since I am a MT healer. But its sad that all of my spells at expert are not even close to my old gm spells, since they are levels higher u would assume they would have an increase. Also I still have a max health debuff ( which someone told me was suppose to change). But it didn't.

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